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Old 27-03-12   #1
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Icon13 Why the Single Core Di?


So,

Microsoft is going to come out with 2 news Windows Phone "Tango" phones in April (the Nokia Lumia 900, and the HTC Titan II.) All fine and dandy. But one thing which leaves a bad tastes me my mouth is the fact that both of them are based on a fairly ancient Single Core Qualcomm S2 Chipset?

Its like Intel pushing a 3.4 Ghz Pentium 4 to compete with a Alhlon 64 X2 saying that the 3.4 Ghz is better than 2 2.4 Ghz cores.

Now that the competition for Tango is already running dual core since a few months already, won't it make business sense (forgetting about the technical benefits for a moment) to at least have a dual core in the spec list?

What say you?
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Old 27-03-12   #2
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

I will say without prejudice that it hurts, not coz the WP 7 phone I am using is slow or something, but coz people harping about dual core and quad core make me want it too...
But there is nothing that it can't do and that too as fast or faster than any other device..
e.g... a guy had S2, so he said android is still laggy, I installed a custom rom in his s2..
he still says that he has to kill apps and it is not what his iPhone was

then he uses my Focus, wow he says...
this is smooth.. and fast.. the idea appealed to him somewhat but he didn't tell me anything more..
now last week he tells me, I want two Focus's one for my family and one for me as an extra phone, as he already bought the Note..

*Discuss*

this guy has had all the phones and uses them all day extensively !!!
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Old 27-03-12   #3
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

A very long time ago.. I used to have a phone that was the best going at the time.
Probably was one of the first phones that could be termed a Smart-phone (the phrase hadn't been coined at the time)
Was totally the greatest phone of the time..
Called the Sony Ericsson P800

Used to Love the phone.. but the only problem was that it was transluscent Blue.

Well, at the time I had a very good friend who was very high up in SE..
So I asked him "Why the Hell did you release such a great phone.. in transluscent Blue?"

He laughed.. and showed me a few pics.. my phone in Black and silver (later to be released as the P900) and even one with a fold out QWERTY.

They had these before they even released the P800
But why give me that.. when they could sell me (and all us early adopters) a phone I love.. in a color that I hated..
only to make me upgrade a year later to the black phone I wanted in the first place.

Tell you this.. cuz maybe that's exactly what's happenning.
They know all the Manish-da's are eagerly awaiting these phones.. make the early adopters buy twice

Not saying this is happening.. just elaborating a theory
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Old 27-03-12   #4
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Originally Posted by ManISinJpr View Post
I will say without prejudice that it hurts, not coz the WP 7 phone I am using is slow or something, but coz people harping about dual core and quad core make me want it too...
But there is nothing that it can't do and that too as fast or faster than any other device..
e.g... a guy had S2, so he said android is still laggy, I installed a custom rom in his s2..
he still says that he has to kill apps and it is not what his iPhone was

then he uses my Focus, wow he says...
this is smooth.. and fast.. the idea appealed to him somewhat but he didn't tell me anything more..
now last week he tells me, I want two Focus's one for my family and one for me as an extra phone, as he already bought the Note..

*Discuss*

this guy has had all the phones and uses them all day extensively !!!
exactly...androids are just an excitement for around a 4-5 days time range IMO...
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Old 27-03-12   #5
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

what our learned friend here said is what happens all the time. companies tend to have a long roadmap of devices. work generally starts in parallel.

i have been keenly watching the low cost tablet market. 3G and gps modules are the star stuff there. a top of the line sirf iii usb reciever sells for anything between @20-30 in retail. a basic 3G phone would cost $30-40 maybe? if you do a just basis estimate, the modules in question should be costing not more than $10-15 in total. but low end tabs that have both of these tend to cost atleast $75 extra .

Clearly, product strategists around are not exactly consumer friendly.
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Old 27-03-12   #6
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

And coming back to the single core debate again, I have till now not found an app which makes y phone slow, shooting and playing HD and games all work flawlessly
In the end we have to ask, what is it that we want or is it what we require???
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Old 27-03-12   #7
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Manish da, your argument makes perfect sense. However, I can understand sticking to a dual core and not going to a quad core just to match specs with other phones. But a single to a dual core is a BIG shift in terms of how things are handled by the operating system.

For example, enabling iTunes Match on a single core iOS device makes the UI lag because the single core is also busy setting up iTunes Match. Doing so on a iPhone 4S or a iPad 2 doesn't induce lag at all.
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Old 27-03-12   #8
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

As of now windows phone doesn't really need a dual core. It would really be an overkill.
The way the OS is built and tuned, its extremely efficient at utilizing resources.
Just to quote an example, i was comparing the performance of angry birds on a Galaxy S and Focus (same hardware) and found the game to cause occasional stuttering in Galaxy S but none whatsoever on Windows Phone. This was tested with email open in the background and with media player in paused state.

As far as bragging rights are concerned, i don't think hardware should be considered directly proportional to performance.
Just google "smoked by windows phone" and you'll see a treasure trove of tips and tricks for android and iOS users so that they can beat Windows phone in some basic tasks. And remember this is considering multi core androids and iOS devices.
That kinda proves the whole point.

Recently a guy(with dual core android) happened to win against a Windows Phone and that was only cause he had disabled his lockscreen(which is by default on) and had the slight advantage of reaching the homescreen faster. I really think the number of smartphone users who dont use lockscreens is pretty rare and really would you do that with an expensive phone?
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Old 27-03-12   #9
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

hokay. there is a whole lot being said about windows phone's efficiency.
<technical_blabber>
so a simple query: can it run on 256mb ram? because i have a hardware-software project where the hardware is ARM and has only 256mb RAM. it won't support java too well and i need quite a bit of custom applications running. so if windows phone can run efficiently ( hell, dont need ui) and allow me to write basic native services, i would be a happy soul. Have the safer alternative of running a well adjusted linux distro [multiple, already available] and working with C++ to do things but that will possibly involve more effort in terms of the C++ side of things.

any sort of profiler reports stating the load times and memory footprint would be nice.


</technical_blabber>
P.S: this.postSarcasmContent=0;
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Old 27-03-12   #10
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

I am also waiting for a dual core phone, not coz I need it or coz my phone lags.. but coz of all the current gen phones have them
the OS is super efficient, I have used Android extensively... and did not miss it one day ( except when I needed ahem apps )
I don't have anything to compare it to iTunes or something but this never lags... I go without a restart forever.. android needed those two times in a day !!
Originally Posted by KiD0M4N View Post
Manish da, your argument makes perfect sense. However, I can understand sticking to a dual core and not going to a quad core just to match specs with other phones. But a single to a dual core is a BIG shift in terms of how things are handled by the operating system.

For example, enabling iTunes Match on a single core iOS device makes the UI lag because the single core is also busy setting up iTunes Match. Doing so on a iPhone 4S or a iPad 2 doesn't induce lag at all.


It runs with 256 MB ram.. in th eTango version !!
but what you want is cuztomizations and that is not there !!! java is not supported and will not be....
as for memory footprint... I have 6 apps open, emails, webpage 6 tabs.., games, music and recording 720p videos and have never gone above 100mb of ram usage !!!
Originally Posted by baba doga View Post
hokay. there is a whole lot being said about windows phone's efficiency.
<technical_blabber>
so a simple query: can it run on 256mb ram? because i have a hardware-software project where the hardware is ARM and has only 256mb RAM. it won't support java too well and i need quite a bit of custom applications running. so if windows phone can run efficiently ( hell, dont need ui) and allow me to write basic native services, i would be a happy soul. Have the safer alternative of running a well adjusted linux distro [multiple, already available] and working with C++ to do things but that will possibly involve more effort in terms of the C++ side of things.

any sort of profiler reports stating the load times and memory footprint would be nice.


</technical_blabber>
P.S: this.postSarcasmContent=0;
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Old 27-03-12   #11
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Originally Posted by baba doga View Post
hokay. there is a whole lot being said about windows phone's efficiency.
<technical_blabber>
so a simple query: can it run on 256mb ram? because i have a hardware-software project where the hardware is ARM and has only 256mb RAM. it won't support java too well and i need quite a bit of custom applications running. so if windows phone can run efficiently ( hell, dont need ui) and allow me to write basic native services, i would be a happy soul. Have the safer alternative of running a well adjusted linux distro [multiple, already available] and working with C++ to do things but that will possibly involve more effort in terms of the C++ side of things.

any sort of profiler reports stating the load times and memory footprint would be nice.


</technical_blabber>
P.S: this.postSarcasmContent=0;
How are you going to port WP to your platform? Have you considered that?
Which board do you have btw? an off the shelf or a custom made? Which processor does it have? What services do you need which you think WP will provide you a better alternative with than a linux distro?
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Old 27-03-12   #12
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

raspberry pi. and the only reason i would look at WP would be to run WP native apps.

the system is very limited and i will have heavy amounts of data (not large..but high frequency) to process.
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Old 27-03-12   #13
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Kido, I tried a hands on with both the Nokia WM7 phones and let me tell you I was pleasently surprised with the smooth factor. I am sure there are issues with the phone which one can find out after a day or two of usage, but my initial reaction was "WOW". I didnt expect this from Nokia and MS, but I am extremely gung ho about the platform as of now. Hopefully they can pull the app store in the right direction, which looking at MS's might may not be very difficult.

If I didnt have a shit load of paid apps on my Iphone, I would have bought the 800 just to try it out. And it is currently way better than the earlier versions of Android. I used uptil 2.1 and was disappointed with my phone and the software. My main issue being lack of support from the manufacturer (Motorola) and it just did not work as I wanted it to out of the box. The WM7 and Iphone did that for me.
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Old 27-03-12   #14
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Originally Posted by baba doga View Post
raspberry pi. and the only reason i would look at WP would be to run WP native apps.

the system is very limited and i will have heavy amounts of data (not large..but high frequency) to process.
FYI:
1. WP doesn't run on ARM v6 which is what raspberry pi has.
2. Even if it did, you won't be able to port it.
3. What WP native apps would you want to run without a UI?
4. If you want only number crunching, a linux distro should be the way to go
5. If you really want a mobile OS functionality, look at headless android.
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Old 27-03-12   #15
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Re: Why the Single Core Di?

Originally Posted by shantanugoel View Post
FYI:
1. WP doesn't run on ARM v6 which is what raspberry pi has.
2. Even if it did, you won't be able to port it.
3. What WP native apps would you want to run without a UI?
4. If you want only number crunching, a linux distro should be the way to go
5. If you really want a mobile OS functionality, look at headless android.
thanks.
pl. elaborate on point 2. is it a skill issue or something around licensing?

the goal is to run say, 10 services . 3-4 monitor a whole lot of signals (could go upto 50 per second) being broadcasted on two networks ( not lan/wifi). the rest do specific tasks.

not much number crunching involved. just a lot of real time monitoring. and the power consumption needs to be as low as possible.
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