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Old 23-10-13   #1
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Icon6 Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!


HI guys, i was expecting nokia to launch lumia 525 in yesterday's event [Nokia world event abu dhabi 2013] , I saw complete live stream , watched Elop launching lumia high end phones, asha and Nokia tablet but no sign of Lumia 525 ?!!! did I miss anything from that event ?!!!
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Old 23-10-13   #2
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

There was no Lumia 525. You shouldn't always believe what the speculation says. At the event Nokia showcased 6in (15.2cm) the Lumia 1520 and Lumia 1320, The Lumia 2520 tablet and a few more Asha's.
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Old 23-10-13   #3
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Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
There was no Lumia 525. You shouldn't always believe what the speculation says. At the event Nokia showcased 6in (15.2cm) the Lumia 1520 and Lumia 1320, The Lumia 2520 tablet and a few more Asha's.
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Old 23-10-13   #4
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Icon6 Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Oh darn !!!! I was about to buy lumia 520 but hold it for lumia 525 , when i heard about the rumors.. !!! missed an offer as well..
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Old 23-10-13   #5
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by MrGreen View Post
Oh darn !!!! I was about to buy lumia 520 but hold it for lumia 525 , when i heard about the rumors.. !!! missed an offer as well..
Why Lumia? The phone hardware is good but the Windows ecosystem is not so great and its future is uncertain. Try looking for a similar spec Android device.
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Old 23-10-13   #6
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Long time future of window phone is very dark... Currently people buying Lumia, but they are getting bored after some time and resale value is very bad..

4
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Old 23-10-13   #7
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by manojcitc View Post
Long time future of window phone is very dark... Currently people buying Lumia, but they are getting bored after some time and resale value is very bad..

4
Yeah, spoken for every windows phone owner. What about the android guys who secretly feel jealous of lumia's awesome smoothness and camera

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Old 23-10-13   #8
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
.... its future is uncertain
What makes you say that?
I know from your previous statements that you are not a big fan but are you even taking an informed guess here?
Now i know its nowhere the marketshare of Android or iPhone, but it has established itself as the 3rd ecosystem.

you can really say that about blackberry because there we are not even sure if they'd be making devices at all 2 years down the line.
they have already put a stoppage to consumer devices.

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

Originally Posted by manojcitc View Post
long time future is dark.
So short time future is very bright?
This must be ideal mobile phone right since you anyways don't buy and keep a mobile for like 10years? that future long enough for you?

Originally Posted by manojcitc View Post
people buying Lumia, but they are getting bored after some time
Who them people?
Since you seem to have caught the consumer nerves pretty well, have you considered joining a marketing firm ?
DONT!, PLEASE!

Originally Posted by manojcitc View Post
resale value is very bad
The above two, i considered as just senseless comments.
But how did you arrive at this one? which used windows phone model did you or your friend buy or sell? How much?

there are posts which are helpful and guiding to the community and then there are those which aren't even close.
future is dark, people getting bored and resale value being bad.
Can you put forward an argument to establish any of these as a fact?
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Last edited by prajith; 23-10-13 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 24-10-13   #9
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by prajith View Post
What makes you say that?
I know from your previous statements that you are not a big fan but are you even taking an informed guess here?
Now i know its nowhere the marketshare of Android or iPhone, but it has established itself as the 3rd ecosystem.
Yes my apprehensions do have some basis actually. The Lumia series is a line of smartphones and tablet computers designed and marketed by Nokia. By early 2014 the entire Lumia brand, and the company originally behind it will be in the hands of Microsoft and there and all is not well within that company even though things seem calm for now.

Now let me clarify that I dont think there are going to be any major changes to the Windows phone platform or to the Lumia line immediately, however there are a few concerns in the medium and long term like -

1. Microsoft is getting a new CEO next year who may make dramatic changes to the loss making Windows phone OS, Windows RT and Lumia line.
2. Microsoft has already declared that Windows phone will be merged with Windows RT with both sharing the same API. If major changes are made here then existing Lumia's may not be compatible with newer Windows OS/Apps. For instance Windows Phone 7 devices could not be upgraded to Windows phone 8 and Windows Phone 7 was not compatible with previous gen apps.
3. Some Microsoft Board members (esp in incoming Valueact) are not in favour of Microsoft being in the devices business and are not in favour of the current mobile strategy. They may persuade the company to make dramatic changes to their mobile business.

So if changes occur at Microsoft then you may be the collateral damage if you are buying a Windows Phone/ Windows RT device.
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Old 24-10-13   #10
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Yes my apprehensions do have some basis actually. The Lumia series is a line of smartphones and tablet computers designed and marketed by Nokia. By early 2014 the entire Lumia brand, and the company originally behind it will be in the hands of Microsoft and there and all is not well within that company even though things seem calm for now.

Now let me clarify that I dont think there are going to be any major changes to the Windows phone platform or to the Lumia line immediately, however there are a few concerns in the medium and long term like -

1. Microsoft is getting a new CEO next year who may make dramatic changes to the loss making Windows phone OS, Windows RT and Lumia line.
2. Microsoft has already declared that Windows phone will be merged with Windows RT with both sharing the same API. If major changes are made here then existing Lumia's may not be compatible with newer Windows OS/Apps. For instance Windows Phone 7 devices could not be upgraded to Windows phone 8 and Windows Phone 7 was not compatible with previous gen apps.
3. Some Microsoft Board members (esp in incoming Valueact) are not in favour of Microsoft being in the devices business and are not in favour of the current mobile strategy. They may persuade the company to make dramatic changes to their mobile business.

So if changes occur at Microsoft then you may be the collateral damage if you are buying a Windows Phone/ Windows RT device.

1. This is true except Windows Phone OS is not making a loss. Microsoft made approx $613 million during WP7 time. With Android licensing, this number runs in billions *just saying* Windows RT is a flop though and as a result $900 million for Surface was written off.

2. This argument of yours is invalid. There is a reason why WP8 couldn't run on WP7 device. Please read more about the kernel powering Windows 8 (Pro and RT) and WP8 More than 40% API's remain the same which Microsoft said will be pushing to 70%+ once the merge happens which will take a bit of time. Look at the specs of Lumia 1520 and Lumia 2520 (Tablet)

3. This is true except you do realize they aren't the only Board Members. There is still Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer (hopefully) who own more than 8% of the company just to name them. Microsoft doesn't make money in short run. Their strategy is to invest big and then turn a profit. Xbox is a classic example. Yes I know Xbone is not that popular among gamers right now heh.

Coming to the topic:

I was really hoping for Lumia 525 too but I guess it will release next year. Lumia 1320 is a good bet except its too big. I wish it was a 5" Device. It would be awesome if it would sell at the same price as 520 *wishful thinking*
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Old 24-10-13   #11
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Yes my apprehensions do have some basis actually. The Lumia series is a line of smartphones and tablet computers designed and marketed by Nokia. By early 2014 the entire Lumia brand, and the company originally behind it will be in the hands of Microsoft and there and all is not well within that company even though things seem calm for now.

Now let me clarify that I dont think there are going to be any major changes to the Windows phone platform or to the Lumia line immediately, however there are a few concerns in the medium and long term like -

1. Microsoft is getting a new CEO next year who may make dramatic changes to the loss making Windows phone OS, Windows RT and Lumia line.
2. Microsoft has already declared that Windows phone will be merged with Windows RT with both sharing the same API. If major changes are made here then existing Lumia's may not be compatible with newer Windows OS/Apps. For instance Windows Phone 7 devices could not be upgraded to Windows phone 8 and Windows Phone 7 was not compatible with previous gen apps.
3. Some Microsoft Board members (esp in incoming Valueact) are not in favour of Microsoft being in the devices business and are not in favour of the current mobile strategy. They may persuade the company to make dramatic changes to their mobile business.

So if changes occur at Microsoft then you may be the collateral damage if you are buying a Windows Phone/ Windows RT device.
Leaders change but business continues.
Very few leaders have the proven capability to turn around an entire company like Jobs, and we can see what happens when such charismatic leaders have to leave the helm.
Microsoft havent had anybody like that for a long time. The CEO is going to change but it is not going to affect business largely, infact the changes might be positive as the Industry is expecting and as the market movements showed when Ballmer announced his retirement.
Although i am not even closely qualified to make this statement but i think Ballmer did his job well. Times change, sometimes radically(mobile era) and that needs a new mindset, a new strategy and a new leadership.

So to speak of the 3 points you mentioned:
1.
Making profit is not the point for Windows Phone division, atleast not for now.
In fact Microsoft might provide WP to some manufacturers license free till the marketshare catches up.
Its the platform and its the associated and continuing services like Live, Skydrive, Xbox Live and Skype that earn the profits.
Similar to what google does.

2.
Windows Phone and Windows RT are going to merge and thats exciting because as of now the code i write is like 40% shared between the platforms. Merging will bring 100% code sharing. I am maintaining/paying for two separate developer account which will reduce to one.
And if you have been monitoring the changes in the SDK and the feature sets its more Windows Phone growing into RT than the other way round. Already the Windows 8 apps have been shown to run on XBox One.
So a single app running on Phone, tablet, console - how exciting is that?

As far as your fears of not being able to upgrade, Windows Phone 7 was a stopgap based on Windows CE 7.0 kernel. They were desperate and had nothing. Yes you can blame and curse them for being shortsighted.
WP8 is on NT kernel, the difference is like heaven and earth. Obviously its not upgradable.
But now the platform has been established. Phone, Tablet and XBox One all have NT kernel.
So there need not be major worries on that front now.

3.
Yes some shareholders are against the devices angle. Hence Nokia.
All signs show (and i have been following this closely) that Nokia will be running the whole devices show as a subsidiary.
Microsoft will be focusing on the Software and solutions.
They just cant declare stuff yet because of the non-compete, be oblivious to each other till merger completes terms.
So although Microsoft branding will take its place eventually, I believe Nokia is going to continue leading the devices segment as they have been.

p.s. - Valueact has a stake of $1.9 Billion in Microsoft. Microsoft currently has $77 Billion in cash and investment.
If it comes to drawing swords, who do you think has better chances?
somebody might be using their stock buyback options ?
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Old 24-10-13   #12
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by lastAvenger View Post
1. This is true except Windows Phone OS is not making a loss. Microsoft made approx $613 million during WP7 time.
Microsoft earned $613 million of "revenue" for the full fiscal year, which includes Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, Zune, Mediaroom, Surface, and hardware. Revenue does not mean profit. You can be making a loss and still have very good revenues. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20086354-75/report-windows-phone-7-revenue-an-abysmal-$613-million/

Microsoft doesnt say how many Windows 8 licences it sold and how much profit it made out of them. Even if we assume that Microsoft was making profits selling Windows Phone OS, the companies selling Windows phones were not making a profit on those phones.

In October Nokia had made about 90% of the Windows Phones and they are in deep losses. Once Microsoft takes them over they will have to subsidise the losses.



Also Now that Microsoft itself is making its own phones, other companies will have even less enthusiasm to make Windows phones.

Originally Posted by lastAvenger View Post
2. This argument of yours is invalid. There is a reason why WP8 couldn't run on WP7 device. Please read more about the kernel powering Windows 8 (Pro and RT) and WP8 More than 40% API's remain the same which Microsoft said will be pushing to 70%+ once the merge happens which will take a bit of time. Look at the specs of Lumia 1520 and Lumia 2520 (Tablet)
All those technical points are valid but it was the customers who had to suffer for it. I'm not so certain they wont leave customers in the soup again. The Lumia tablets may also not be there next year as they compete with the Surface.

Originally Posted by lastAvenger View Post
3. This is true except you do realize they aren't the only Board Members. There is still Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer (hopefully) who own more than 8% of the company just to name them. Microsoft doesn't make money in short run. Their strategy is to invest big and then turn a profit. Xbox is a classic example. Yes I know Xbone is not that popular among gamers right now heh.
A lot of people including some of the board members feel that it is Bill Gates and Ballmer who are taking Microsoft in the wrong direction. Ballmer has already been forced out as CEO and there have been calls for Bill Gates to step down as well. If there is a shareholder revolt then both of them and their cronies will have to go. I certainly think its high time for both of them to go.

Event though the Xbox gets a lot of attention it is still a small part of Microsoft. With Ballmers departure that may be spun off as well Xbox Spinoff Seen More Likely With Ballmer Exit: Real M&A - Bloomberg

Some of their services and products never made any profit (MSN or Zune anyone?) What happens to Windows phone is far from certain.
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Old 24-10-13   #13
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Icon6 Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Why Lumia? The phone hardware is good but the Windows ecosystem is not so great and its future is uncertain. Try looking for a similar spec Android device.
Before I concluded on Lumia i did some research, spoke with the guys who are using android. one thing is very certain Android sucks in low end mobiles i.e below 10K. if you are planning to buy android always go for high end phones, all low end mobiles lags with android on. Even i can raise my budget and come close to Xperia M. it is around 12.8 K. and if you look at the hardware it's almost same... except for front camera , falsh and 512MB Ram which is more than enough for the Winodws OS. and 8GB space of it comes handy. There is no other differnce., the point is the extra 4.5k what i'm paying for XM is ONLY for the android !!!

Android is great , simply it's not good for entry level phones !!..
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Old 24-10-13   #14
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Microsoft earned $613 million of "revenue" for the full fiscal year, which includes Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, Zune, Mediaroom, Surface, and hardware. Revenue does not mean profit. You can be making a loss and still have very good revenues. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-20086354-75/report-windows-phone-7-revenue-an-abysmal-$613-million/

Microsoft doesnt say how many Windows 8 licences it sold and how much profit it made out of them. Even if we assume that Microsoft was making profits selling Windows Phone OS, the companies selling Windows phones were not making a profit on those phones.

In October Nokia had made about 90% of the Windows Phones and they are in deep losses. Once Microsoft takes them over they will have to subsidise the losses.



Also Now that Microsoft itself is making its own phones, other companies will have even less enthusiasm to make Windows phones.



All those technical points are valid but it was the customers who had to suffer for it. I'm not so certain they wont leave customers in the soup again. The Lumia tablets may also not be there next year as they compete with the Surface.



A lot of people including some of the board members feel that it is Bill Gates and Ballmer who are taking Microsoft in the wrong direction. Ballmer has already been forced out as CEO and there have been calls for Bill Gates to step down as well. If there is a shareholder revolt then both of them and their cronies will have to go. I certainly think its high time for both of them to go.

Event though the Xbox gets a lot of attention it is still a small part of Microsoft. With Ballmers departure that may be spun off as well Xbox Spinoff Seen More Likely With Ballmer Exit: Real M&A - Bloomberg

Some of their services and products never made any profit (MSN or Zune anyone?) What happens to Windows phone is far from certain.
Ms doesn't need to worry about Revenue or profit from WP as long as that royalty keeps coming from Android, its sufficient.

Windows 8 has sold more than 100 million licenses. Their division reports the revenue of all the Windows licenses together because that hows they have been reporting. You will never find them telling how much they make just from Windows 8 just like they have never said how much they made just from Windows 7. Yes! Windows 8 hasn't been a hit but thats because MS has introduced something so drastic that it will make time plus Windows 8.1 seems to be fixing most of the problems.

Before Microsoft decided to make its own smartphones only Nokia was the serious player in the market. It has 90% of Windows Phone share compared to others which fall in that 10% space. Honestly even if they quit, it doesn't make much of difference as these OEM's don't bring any innovation to their WP devices.

With coming to WP8 devices, MS has promised that all WP8 devices will be getting updates for next 18 months. I don't think people need to worry to be honest. Most Android devices, barely get any updates. I will not argue on that point.

Who are these 'lot of people' that you talk about? If you mean analysts then please don't pay any attention. They get paid to jab different theories and get attention. People will talk but its best to ignore them.

I will agree with you that their other divisions especially Bing hasn't made any profit but hey they need Bing to keep some competition and innovation. Not all like Google creeping through users privacy or use it as their search engine.

If you are really interested please read on how Microsoft has been re-organized completely and more important why this has happened.
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Old 24-10-13   #15
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Re: Where is LUMIA 525 ?!!!!

Both of these replies are superlative posts.. !
Bravo, really read them and agree to them.
What we are discussing is a lot of bullcrap.. coz Windows 8 or 8.1 is already making amends and now see the number of tablets and touch PC's being made.. !
Such is the case of nokia or any other manufacturer.. !

Only Samsung and LG make money from android, no other company is making profits .

Originally Posted by prajith View Post
Leaders change but business continues.
Very few leaders have the proven capability to turn around an entire company like Jobs, and we can see what happens when such charismatic leaders have to leave the helm.
Microsoft havent had anybody like that for a long time. The CEO is going to change but it is not going to affect business largely, infact the changes might be positive as the Industry is expecting and as the market movements showed when Ballmer announced his retirement.
Although i am not even closely qualified to make this statement but i think Ballmer did his job well. Times change, sometimes radically(mobile era) and that needs a new mindset, a new strategy and a new leadership.

So to speak of the 3 points you mentioned:
1.
Making profit is not the point for Windows Phone division, atleast not for now.
In fact Microsoft might provide WP to some manufacturers license free till the marketshare catches up.
Its the platform and its the associated and continuing services like Live, Skydrive, Xbox Live and Skype that earn the profits.
Similar to what google does.

2.
Windows Phone and Windows RT are going to merge and thats exciting because as of now the code i write is like 40% shared between the platforms. Merging will bring 100% code sharing. I am maintaining/paying for two separate developer account which will reduce to one.
And if you have been monitoring the changes in the SDK and the feature sets its more Windows Phone growing into RT than the other way round. Already the Windows 8 apps have been shown to run on XBox One.
So a single app running on Phone, tablet, console - how exciting is that?

As far as your fears of not being able to upgrade, Windows Phone 7 was a stopgap based on Windows CE 7.0 kernel. They were desperate and had nothing. Yes you can blame and curse them for being shortsighted.
WP8 is on NT kernel, the difference is like heaven and earth. Obviously its not upgradable.
But now the platform has been established. Phone, Tablet and XBox One all have NT kernel.
So there need not be major worries on that front now.

3.
Yes some shareholders are against the devices angle. Hence Nokia.
All signs show (and i have been following this closely) that Nokia will be running the whole devices show as a subsidiary.
Microsoft will be focusing on the Software and solutions.
They just cant declare stuff yet because of the non-compete, be oblivious to each other till merger completes terms.
So although Microsoft branding will take its place eventually, I believe Nokia is going to continue leading the devices segment as they have been.

p.s. - Valueact has a stake of $1.9 Billion in Microsoft. Microsoft currently has $77 Billion in cash and investment.
If it comes to drawing swords, who do you think has better chances?
somebody might be using their stock buyback options ?

Originally Posted by lastAvenger View Post
Ms doesn't need to worry about Revenue or profit from WP as long as that royalty keeps coming from Android, its sufficient.

Windows 8 has sold more than 100 million licenses. Their division reports the revenue of all the Windows licenses together because that hows they have been reporting. You will never find them telling how much they make just from Windows 8 just like they have never said how much they made just from Windows 7. Yes! Windows 8 hasn't been a hit but thats because MS has introduced something so drastic that it will make time plus Windows 8.1 seems to be fixing most of the problems.

Before Microsoft decided to make its own smartphones only Nokia was the serious player in the market. It has 90% of Windows Phone share compared to others which fall in that 10% space. Honestly even if they quit, it doesn't make much of difference as these OEM's don't bring any innovation to their WP devices.

With coming to WP8 devices, MS has promised that all WP8 devices will be getting updates for next 18 months. I don't think people need to worry to be honest. Most Android devices, barely get any updates. I will not argue on that point.

Who are these 'lot of people' that you talk about? If you mean analysts then please don't pay any attention. They get paid to jab different theories and get attention. People will talk but its best to ignore them.

I will agree with you that their other divisions especially Bing hasn't made any profit but hey they need Bing to keep some competition and innovation. Not all like Google creeping through users privacy or use it as their search engine.

If you are really interested please read on how Microsoft has been re-organized completely and more important why this has happened.


---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 AM ----------

And for the Record, I purchased a Lumia 520 for my family and they are very happy along with me.
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