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Old 20-12-08   #1
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What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?


Hey all-

I was just wondering:

The best possible music format now a days is 16bit/44.1kHz (in flac files, the RedBook standard) so what is the entire point of the flashy audio phile grade sound cards which tout 24bit/192kHz capabilities.

It is like trying to create detail which is not there.

Care to disagree?

A very good discussion thread to feed the debate: http://studio-central.com/phpbb/view...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Karan
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Old 20-12-08   #2
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

only that, IIRC, the 24 bit, 192 khz, is the highest quality of audio that is distinguishable by the human ear, any higher and it all sounds the same?

or does audio require only so much and anything higher is a complete waste.

though i do agree that 16bit, 44.1 is enough.
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Old 20-12-08   #3
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Heh. Nooooooo idea
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Old 20-12-08   #4
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

As far as playback is concerned 95% of the music available today is in redbook.However,there is are higher quality formats available like SACD and DvD-Audio but they fall under the remaining 5% for which you need a system capable of 24bit/192Khz.
Also if your going to record stuff I think its best get the highest possible quality so you'll probably use 24bit/192Khz.
SACD and DvD-Audio have been available for years but they don't seem to be catching up really.
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Old 20-12-08   #5
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

if this is so then why clarity and difference in sound quality when i change the sound output from 44khz to 96khz
songs feal less distorted now crystalness is more now
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Old 20-12-08   #6
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

if i am not too wrong, that is because the sampling rate or something has gotten improved, so more data is collected and processed??
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

so it means it makes difference
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Old 20-12-08   #8
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

@OT so wat is th best setting for music be it mp3 or aac or wma on my N73 Music editon wt Ep630 headphones just want quality .. was now encoding at 128kpps and 32bit so tel me teh settings guys ...
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Old 20-12-08   #9
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Originally Posted by roadrippersid View Post
@OT so wat is th best setting for music be it mp3 or aac or wma on my N73 Music editon wt Ep630 headphones just want quality .. was now encoding at 128kpps and 32bit so tel me teh settings guys ...
32-bit ??....

arre buddy mp3 is a lossy format....dont upgrade the bitrate from lossy formats it have no improvements over quality.
128bit 44.1khz and 16bit mp3 audio will provide no sound quality improvement if reformatted to higher quality. Best compression is the eAAC+ or AAC2 AAC+ v1 n v2....all similar but named differently by companies.....they provide best compression at same audio quality than mp3. If you device supports it then they are to wt it shud be encoded.

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Last edited by wingzero; 20-12-08 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 20-12-08   #10
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

yeah n73 supports aac( eAAC+ or AAC2 AAC+...)i feell i check out and wat settings and bit rate i shud encode wat sws u use/???

and 32bit was typo..
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Originally Posted by roadrippersid View Post
yeah n73 supports aac( eAAC+ or AAC2 AAC+...)i feell i check out and wat settings and bit rate i shud encode wat sws u use/???

and 32bit was typo..
use dbpoweramp and plugins
dBpoweramp: CD Ripper & Audio Converter. Secure ripping to mp3, FLAC, m4a, Apple Lossless & WMA

Advanced Audio Compression (AAC), of which are different types: LC (low complexity), HE (high efficiency) to name a few. To encode your audio to be compatible with most audio players, use the LC compression type (used as default by this encoder). High Efficiency (HE AAC) uses SBR technology (not too different as mp3PRO) if the player knows about HE the extra frequency information can be decoded, otherwise half the audio quality will be missing on playback. A newer standard again for ultra low bitrates is AAC+ or AAC HE v2, this uses parametric stereo for even lower bitrates, dBpoweramp is able to decode every AAC type (excluding iTunes m4p protected).
Apples Lossless (ALAC or ALE) this format is like Zip for audio, no audio quality is lost (audio tracks purchased from Apples iMS store are lossy aac).
i think you should be good with 64kbps...however choice is yours....depending upon your ears...

Last edited by wingzero; 20-12-08 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 20-12-08   #12
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Hi folks-

Let me restate my question.

When you are trying to play back a flac file or audio cd containing only 16-bit samples at 44100 times per second, what is the point of trying to increase it to 24-bit and 96000 Hz or 192000Hz? "That is like trying to create a detail which is NOT present."

I agree, if you are have a recording at 24-bit/96kHz, then of course a sound card capable of outputting that fidelity will benefit you, but when playing RedBook, what is the point?

Karan
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Old 20-12-08   #13
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Originally Posted by KiD0M4N View Post
Hi folks-

Let me restate my question.

When you are trying to play back a flac file or audio cd containing only 16-bit samples at 44100 times per second, what is the point of trying to increase it to 24-bit and 96000 Hz or 192000Hz? "That is like trying to create a detail which is NOT present."

I agree, if you are have a recording at 24-bit/96kHz, then of course a sound card capable of outputting that fidelity will benefit you, but when playing RedBook, what is the point?

Karan
wen playing those kinda files theres no point to increase them to 24bit and 96khz or 192khz...sampling. Heck even if you have 24bit audio source you need appropriate hardware to listen to those details too. A hardware is just primary need...you will need some good speaker setups too...which imo none of the desktop spks provide currently. minimum would cost a 30k setup to lakhs..

Bit depth is exponential, so a 24-bit sample holds 256 times as much information as a 16-bit sample. A 16-bit sample has a range of 65,536 values, while a 24-bit sample has a range of 16,777,216

24bit samples....can accomodate very high frequencies compared to 16-bit....and can produce more accurate sine-wave nature.
http://www.wikirecording.org/Bit_Depth

I challenge any one of you to successfully pick out a 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz file from a 16bit/44kHz file in a blind listening test. few rounds of em n you'll see what any true audio enthusiast would tell you, you can't reliably do it beyond luck. Thus proving that the quality differences are a completely upto the overwhelming majority of humans. Only the 1337 few with impeccable hearing and clear understanding of the differences are are truly able to hear a difference.

The main point of recording at 24bit/96kHz or 24bit/192kHz is simply to have a more accurate initial recording as a master copy, with the added benefit of a 24bit/96kHz to 16bit/44kHz conversion creating a better mix-down than had all audio been recorded in 16bit/44kHz from the start.

Actually, 24bit audio is more of a "marketing" feature than a technological feature. At a nominal 6db of signal to noise ratio for each bit of resolution you would mathematically have 144db of signal to noise from the DAC (or ADC if you are recording it). You would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to build a device capable of that SN ratio... what does this mean? It means that the lower resolution bits are useless probably to around the 95-105 db signal to noise region, or about the 16 bit is enough. practically we have seen upto 115db SNR by asus xonar series.

It would take a serious peice of equipment to actually have a measureable difference between a 16 and 24 bit recording; if possible at all. Even then your ears may decieve you unless you are some serious listening skills. most of audiophile ears too fail in blind tests....not to talk of normal ears

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=49843
some more discussion. Prolly the best forums on audio discussion...and amazing codec n driver support too. You can find anythin related to sound over here.

Last edited by wingzero; 20-12-08 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 20-12-08   #14
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

Originally Posted by wingzero View Post
wen playing those kinda files theres no point to increase them to 24bit and 96khz or 192khz...sampling. Heck even if you have 24bit audio source you need appropriate hardware to listen to those details too. A hardware is just primary need...you will need some good speaker setups too...which imo none of the desktop spks provide currently. minimum would cost a 30k setup to lakhs..

Bit depth is exponential, so a 24-bit sample holds 256 times as much information as a 16-bit sample. A 16-bit sample has a range of 65,536 values, while a 24-bit sample has a range of 16,777,216

24bit samples....can accomodate very high frequencies compared to 16-bit....and can produce more accurate sine-wave nature.
Bit Depth - WikiRecording
I am tending to agree to that.... if you have a 24-bit recording, then by all means play it at 24-bit. 96kHz more than takes care of all the upper harmonics possible (again provided that the audio itself was recorded at such a sampling rate to begin with.)

Another very good read: Digital Audio: Oversampling
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Old 20-12-08   #15
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Re: What is the point of 24bit/192kHz?

I think most of the self proclaimed audiophiles will actually talk their way out of taking a blind test as they are **** scared that people will start laughing at them based on the outcome
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