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Old 04-12-11   #16
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.


Manish bhai - you beat me to it.
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Old 04-12-11   #17
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

Manish I'm not encouraging people to evade taxes. I do think that those who can afford it should do so. But a lot of small shopkeepers are barely able to make ends meet these days. They work 12-18 hours with no break even on Weekends. These people would be wiped out if they were to pay all the taxes and all the bribes on top of those taxes.

I think they too deserve to survive and lead a decent life.
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Old 04-12-11   #18
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

I also need a decent life, I work for more than 14 hours a day..
so does that give me right to CHEAT and become a thief??
Your judgement is skewed.. and you won't admit it, that is the problem !!!
Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Manish I'm not encouraging people to evade taxes. I do think that those who can afford it should do so. But a lot of small shopkeepers are barely able to make ends meet these days. They work 12-18 hours with no break even on Weekends. These people would be wiped out if they were to pay all the taxes and all the bribes on top of those taxes.

I think they too deserve to survive and lead a decent life.
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Old 04-12-11   #19
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

Originally Posted by vijayninel View Post
Manish I'm not encouraging people to evade taxes. I do think that those who can afford it should do so. But a lot of small shopkeepers are barely able to make ends meet these days. They work 12-18 hours with no break even on Weekends. These people would be wiped out if they were to pay all the taxes and all the bribes on top of those taxes.

I think they too deserve to survive and lead a decent life.
Vijay, atleast in Delhi, I do not see any small time shopkeeper not able to meet ends these days, frankly cant say anything about any other city. Also again I have not seen any of these shops selling below MRP for any product, so I do not understand how the hell are they passing on the benefit to me. And I work for 12 hours a day too......Sometimes on weekends too, and still have to pay more than 30% of my salary to govt in form of taxes. Then there are few rule change this year, where I have to give PAN copy of my landlord, hence cannot even save up on HRA. Do you think its fair to us that Tax rules are being hardened for us when the 'small time shopkeeper' gets richer by the day....
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Old 04-12-11   #20
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

Originally Posted by thebanik View Post
Vijay, atleast in Delhi, I do not see any small time shopkeeper not able to meet ends these days, frankly cant say anything about any other city. Also again I have not seen any of these shops selling below MRP for any product, so I do not understand how the hell are they passing on the benefit to me. And I work for 12 hours a day too......Sometimes on weekends too, and still have to pay more than 30% of my salary to govt in form of taxes. Then there are few rule change this year, where I have to give PAN copy of my landlord, hence cannot even save up on HRA. Do you think its fair to us that Tax rules are being hardened for us when the 'small time shopkeeper' gets richer by the day....
Banik, you are not in the business community in general so you may not be aware of how things are these days. It is true that most of the kirana shops owners are not that hard up. The reasons are that a lot of them belong to the marwari community which gives you a lot of advantages in business. They get extended periods of credit, unsecured loans at low interest and better prices. However retailers from other communities are not so better off. A lot of them are struggling to make ends meet and will go under if they paid all the taxes and non-harassment bribes.

Secondly it is not that they dont pay any taxes. That is simply not possible in this day and age of taxes. They also have pan cards like you and usually all retailers pay several types of taxes and bribes. What happens is that they dont pay the full tax and this happens with the full knowledge of the authorities who get a share of the evaded taxes. Even the very small roadside hawkers pay the police, municipal authorities and other govt departments because unlike the IT industry they dont have to ability to get free land, tax exemptions and holidays.

They may not sell to you below the mrp but their prices for non mrp items like rice, wheat, lentils, sugar etc will be usually less than what you will get at large retail supermarkets. Also they give unsecured credit to lower middle class and poor people who cannot pay for their purchases immediately. While this may be a non issue for you, it is of great importance to those poorer sections of society who dont have credit cards. You see the bank will give you loan to buy a car but not to buy food. The small shopkeepers do that, supermarkets dont.

Once thing that I do think that organised retail can help is in fruits and vegetables. You see a whole lot of our produce is lost (by rotting) in transit which increases cost. If these organised retail stores can set up back end storage and transport to prevent these losses then it would have been of great help. I had great hopes from Reliance Fresh when they opened up vegetable stores. Unfortunately this was not to be so and their procurement and logistics are totally messed up. This year Reliance Fresh had losses of Rs 571.88 crore and rising. There are indications that the Ambanis are finding the retail biz a bit too hard for their liking. Anyway lets hope someone else can make a better business out of this.
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Old 04-12-11   #21
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

Vijay - In terms of quitting business, retail is the easiest. I dont think the shopkeepers who are trying to make ends meet do it just to make them meet. To cut their losses, they can easily quit and take up any other profession.

As the article pointed out - they are quite profitable and make very good money. The ones who suffer are those who sell low quality stuff or are located in some non-residential area.

Reliance is facing losses because people are still not used to the idea of buying vegetables in a shop. And a host of other reasons like selling goods that were on the verge of expiry.
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Old 04-12-11   #22
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Re: Unfortunately Our Countries Politicians Are Skewed in Favor of Selected Few.

Originally Posted by SignOps View Post
Vijay - In terms of quitting business, retail is the easiest. I dont think the shopkeepers who are trying to make ends meet do it just to make them meet. To cut their losses, they can easily quit and take up any other profession.
These are people not vegetables. What do you expect them to do? Join a call center? They dont have the skills for that and they dont have capital to experiment with risky new businesses which may or may not work. There are very few jobs available as it is and unlike the Ambanis they dont have backup businesses to fall back on.

Originally Posted by SignOps View Post
Reliance is facing losses because people are still not used to the idea of buying vegetables in a shop. And a host of other reasons like selling goods that were on the verge of expiry.
No. Reliance is facing losses because their overheads are very high and the margins are very low. The average margins from the factory to the Kirana shop are only 20% higher. (for non perishables). Reliance is bleeding because they are trying to compete with the kirana shop which has very low overheads. (no AC, low staff, unglamorous interiors, tax evasion, cheaper real estate etc. etc).

And it is not just reliance but almost all the large organised retail stores who are in the same soup. Subhiksha closed down and caused huge losses to creditors. RPG is also in a similar situation. ITC choupals are in for a toss. Heritage too... etc

Originally Posted by SignOps View Post
And a host of other reasons like selling goods that were on the verge of expiry.
It is not just Reliance which does that. Alll organised retail stores do that because they get these at discounts. A friend who worked in Foodworld (RPG) told me that they were instructed to stick an expired item back to back (so the best before date cannot be read) and then sell them as a discount pack.
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