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Old 27-05-17   #16
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls


Originally Posted by isaac12345 View Post
Thanks for your replies.

The video with the simulated ryzen 3 doesnt unfortunately include games like crysis 3, battlefield 1 multiplayer, deus ex mankind divided which really benefit a lot from more cores. Minimum framerates seem to be higher on quad cores,even the older intel ones. Guess I would just have to wait for ryzen 3 to come out. Back to my pitiful single core vostro 1500!

As for my PSU, I dont exactly remember when I bought it, but its between 1 & 1.5 years old. From what I have read the rx570s with single 8 pin connectors dont seem to need more juice. And I dont plan to overclock it anytime soon. If you have any links where it says it does need more do let me know.

One thing I'm worried about with amd cards is that for dx11 games, they need more cpu grunt as illustrated in the digital foundry video. AMD still hasnt resolved their driver overhead problems with dx11. So I'm in more of a confusing situation where if I go with Nvidia I can do with a slower cpu but give up freesync(which I reckon is valuable for future proofing) but if I go for AMD, I need a more powerful CPU which costs more but I get freesync. Pff!

As for the GST, good point! Do you know when its being implemented? Under what category will computer components be and how much will they tax be?
1)
it's best you replace the PSU and get Seasonic S12II 520W for Rx 570. Rs 5,500.. than risking it , if extremely tight on budget then you can choose Antec VP550P Rs 3,800 .. get this version only and not VP500PC or Vp600P ... you only get 2 year warranty .. seasonic has 5 years ...

2) Freesync is not only about future proofing ... it's about , giving you a "smooth" experience by getting rid of tearing , and handling drops/fluctuating fps below 60 fps ... with freesync even 45 fps feels smooth .. go through these threads

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...y_able_to_use/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...with_freesync/

to make things easier , you also don't have a choice .. as you will get 1060 3 gb at this price... which is a bad choice going forward because of VRam ..

3) GST will be implemented from 1st july ..

18 % for most components , 28 % for monitors ..

GST: Laptops, desktops to become costlier with entry in 18% slab - The Economic Times


Also I think the actual ryzen 3 would probably under perform than the simulation above because it has only 2 mb of l3 cache! https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryze...specifications
No , that 2mb is L2 cache as mentioned in the comments as well..

Ryzen 1200 has 8 mb L3 cache , same as 1400 .. check entry for Ryzen 1200

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/RO.../HelpDesk_CPU/

Last edited by wolverine1; 26-01-18 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 27-05-17   #17
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

@isaac12345
First off, can you please stop following everything Digital Foundry says blindly? I am not trying to be rude or anything here but whilst @wolverine1 and I have posted videos with relevant benchmarks to make our case, you've just gone on about Digital Foundry saying one thing or another with no actual links to anything. Yeah they are a decent channel but that doesn't mean you have to abide by everything they say or that there aren't other legit, reliable tech sources out there that you could consult.

Here check these G4560 videos by Gamers Nexus. Excellent channel. Their videos are probably the most in depth & informative ones on Youtube. I think they were pretty much the first ones on YT to start posting 1% & 0.1% lows which is a much better way of determining frametime consistency and overall performance compared to the usual min/avg fps.

G4560 review. Listen to what he says carefully and check the Pentium's numbers vs the 2500k/i3 6300 -

The 1% & 0.1% are roughly equivalent to a 2500k/i3 6300 even in CPU heavy games like Total War : Warhammer, GTAV and BF.


G4560 paired with 1050 to 1080 and the 570/580. Go through the whole video and check the 1% & 0.1% low fps numbers -

Solid numbers paired with a 570 which is the card you're looking at. Still only good for CS and Dota?

Look, I am not trying to sell you the Pentium here - I got a 2500k myself. I just posted these videos because you seem to be making quite a few assumptions based on some video you saw and because you're on a budget. If you still think an i3 is worth the price difference or that a locked Sandy i5 will give you much higher performance just because its a quad core, then go right ahead. No point discussing this any further. Anyway, since you haven't been able to make up your mind yet, might as well wait for Ryzen 3 now. That way you'll actually be able to find out if its all its cracked up to be instead of just assuming it isn't.

As for the GPU, back to my Digital Foundry point. "CPU grunt" illustrated in which video? If your target is 1080p@60fps at high settings, then even a 470 paired with a G4560 would be enough for most current titles. Mine (stock) paired with my 2500k (stock) can just about max out DX11 titles like Shadow of Mordor & Skyrim Special Edition. And AMD's driver improvements have reduced the DX11 performance gap to the 1060 not to mention the red team does DX12 better. Look at the latest benchmarks.

If you want something cheaper, that will probably age better (if previous GCN cards are anything to go by), can do Freesync and holds an advantage in DX12 titles, then go with the 470/570. If you don't care about Freesync or DX12, get the 1060. Really can't go wrong with either. That said, its pointless buying a Freesync monitor and not buying a Radeon card to take advantage of it. If you want to avoid vsync/tb/input lag and all that crap, I highly recommend using Freesync. And wolverine1 has already explained why you should change your PSU.
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Last edited by Submerged; 27-05-17 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 27-05-17   #18
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Well the reason I quote digital foundry is that their graph overlay is excellent! Really helps to VISUALISE the difference rather than imagine it with numbers. Also they were amongst the few websites who weren't blindly recommending the g3258 and showed why via their graph overlay benchmarks. It also helps to see how consistent the hardware in question is over different parts of the benchmark. I'm still surprised that no other hardware review site doesn't do it.

Anyway ,the video with the pentium paired with different gfx cards is quite helpful. Thanks for that! I wonder why he didnt include crysis 3 or some dolphin emulator benchmarks.

About the PSU, I simply dont have the budget to upgrade it. Its about 5600-5900! Isn't there a lesser wattage one available? I dont need those many watts anyway.

And is there any place in Delhi where I can see a demo of freesync? Really want to see what the hype is all about. Also its quite dusty where I live. What can I do to reduce dust collecting in the pc? filters or anything better?

GOD THIS SINGLE CORE DELL VOSTRO IS ANNOYING!! Has a hard time with SNES emulators!

Last edited by isaac12345; 27-05-17 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 28-05-17   #19
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

DF are talking about the G3258, we are talking about the G4560. Why is this still confusing you? Just cause they have Pentium & G in their name doesn't make them alike. Both of us have been trying to get this point across to you for a while now but it doesn't seem to be taking.

Apart from a higher clock speed, igpu (irrelevant since you'll be buying a discrete card), AVX 2.0 (doesn't really have anything to do with gaming), its pretty much an i3. And just like the i3, it has hyper threading which makes a huge difference. Its why I stuck with my i3 2100 for a long time. I remember back when Far Cry 4 came out, it simply wouldn't open (w/o hacks) if you had a G3258 because it was a pure dual core part whereas I had no issues running it with my 2100 because it was hyper threaded.

I don't know why you're so hung up on Crysis 3 but if its does well with GTAV, TW:W & BF, I am guessing it'll do alright running Crysis 3. I don't even know what the hell a dolphin emulator is.

No, you have 40k so you have enough to upgrade your PSU. With the PSU, you can't go "Oh I simply don't have the budget to upgrade it". We are taking about the thing that powers your entire rig. Cheap out on just about any other component if you have to but never cheap out on the PSU. Really bad things happen when you do. Speaking from personal experience here. More than your PSU lacking the required wattage, the real problem is that its not of sufficient quality. I mean if it was say a 430w Seasonic psu, then maybe you could have got away with it but those cheap Corsairs aren't great.

Yes, you don't need a lot of watts so a quality 450W unit would do just fine. Lower wattage Seasonic ones don't cost 6k. And like wolverine1 said, you can also look at the Antec VP series. They are solid units that get the job done. You can also look for used PSUs under warranty. That's how I got mine for much cheaper.

If you insist on keeping that PSU (I really wouldn't), then don't get a 570. Power consumption is quite a bit higher compared to the 470 - about 40-50W on average under full load. A 470 (or a 1060 but no free sync, higher cost) is the max I would even attempt to go with that PSU and even then you're taking a big risk. If you want to keep that PSU, a 1050ti would work but you'd be sacrificing quite a bit of performance.

Not from Delhi so don't know where you'd have to go to get a Freesync demo. Maybe some fellow members from Delhi could help you out. As for the dust, buy a case with dust filters.

Well if you don't want to suffer that single core anymore, then make up your mind about something. Or you could suffer it a bit longer to see what Ryzen 3 brings.
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Old 29-05-17   #20
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

I think you misunderstood me when I mentioned DF and the older pentium g3258. I was responding to you when you asked why I am giving them so much importance. I am not confused between the older 3258 and the newer 4560.

The reason I'm stuck on crysis 3 is that firstly I really want to play the last two games in the trilogy. And secondly if you look at DF's review of the 4560, you'll see that even though the processor performs well above expectations, it does relatively poorly as compared to a true quad core when it comes to crysis 3. Dont know why that happens but its insightful to see how far hyper threading can take one.

As for the PSU, I'm not sure how much I could squeeze out of my budget. Its already 45k. Here's what the config looks like at the moment -

pentium g4560 - 4649 - primeabgb.com

Motherboard - 6500-7000 - B250

Ram - DDR4 8gb 2400 - 4700 - Amazon.in - gskill aegis 2x4gb

UPS - APC bx60c-in 6va,230v - 2577

Graphics card - Rx570 4gb Asus strix - 16450 - mdcomputers.in

Monitor - LG 22MP68VQ 22"IPS Freesync - 8749 - LG IPS (22") 22MP68VQ FULL HD BORDERLESS LED Monitor +HDMI PORT+ 3 Yrs WRNTY | eBay

Mouse - Logitech G102 Optical Gaming Mouse - 1649 - Amazon.in

Total - 45774

OS - win 10 pro - 1500

Switching to a new 470 wont save me anything as the prices are similar. Morever, my older rig wont fetch me much money, I expect about Rs2000 for the cpu motherboard and broken gfx card.
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Old 29-05-17   #21
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Intel g4560 is Out of Stock on most website.
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Old 30-05-17   #22
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

typing on mobile so will edit it many times.. don't reply instantly

) Psu
just to caution you .. all models of antec VP series aren't good.. most of them are crappy as well ..
only VP550p v2 and 650p v2 are good quality units... so if you are considering antec then only get VP550P .. don't get vp450p or any other version ..

vp550p costs like Rs 3800.. you have cx 430 which you should be able to sell for 1800..
so your cost of psu would be Rs 2000 only..

if you undervolt then you can also consider seasonic s12II 430 for rs 4400. it has 360w on 12v only.. .. but it is a solid quality unit. has a 5 year warranty .. vp550p has 2 years ... but I am not sure if it will play nicely with UPS or not ..

2) motherboard
why choose b250 and overspend 2-3k , put that in psu .. get Asus h110 or gigabyte h110 ds2 for Rs 4,500
.. boards just need a BIOS update ..

3 ) gpu
rx 570 is 15k so don't pay more than that for Asus .. get sapphire pulse for 15k only.. and save 1500

470 and 570 are same cards .. 570 is over clocked and overvolted.. if you want to use less power then undervolt it..

And you don't have a choice in gpu at same price. 1060 3gb is
already outdated because of 3gb.. 6gb is 4-5k more..

4)Ups ..
you need to get a higher Va ups..
active pfc psu demand higher VA .. go with cheaper brands
.. this is a tricky area .. search well...

5 )
CPU .. see g4560 is obviously not future proof.. and you are aiming for highly CPU intensive games, a recent i5 / true quad would still be around 35-40% faster in pure multi threading performance than g4560. .. so when the game fully taxes all 4 threads it will show... but g4560 is also equal to 2nd gen core i5 2300 in multi threading.. so its a great CPU for the price..
but it has its limits ..question is are those limits good for you or not ?

so look at g4560 + rx 470/570 on crysis 3 on YouTube.. and other CPU intensive games . if you like the fps numbers then go for it.. if not then just push your budget and wait for Ryzen 3..

no other option...


6) don't buy anything online unless you can't find something . go for offline only .. most things are cheaper offline... and you from Delhi so . Nehru place only..

Last edited by wolverine1; 30-05-17 at 03:02 AM.
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Old 30-05-17   #23
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Originally Posted by wolverine1 View Post
typing on mobile so will edit it many times.. don't reply instantly

) Psu
just to caution you .. all models of antec VP series aren't good.. most of them are crappy as well ..
only VP550p v2 and 650p v2 are good quality units... so if you are considering antec then only get VP550P .. don't get vp450p or any other version ..

vp550p costs like Rs 3800.. you have cx 430 which you should be able to sell for 1800..
so your cost of psu would be Rs 2000 only..

if you undervolt then you can also consider seasonic s12II 430 for rs 4400. it has 360w on 12v only.. .. but it is a solid quality unit. has a 5 year warranty .. vp550p has 2 years ... but I am not sure if it will play nicely with UPS or not ..

2) motherboard
why choose b250 and overspend 2-3k , put that in psu .. get Asus h110 or gigabyte h110 ds2 for Rs 4,500
.. boards just need a BIOS update ..

3 ) gpu
rx 570 is 15k so don't pay more than that for Asus .. get sapphire pulse for 15k only.. and save 1500

470 and 570 are same cards .. 570 is over clocked and overvolted.. if you want to use less power then undervolt it..

And you don't have a choice in gpu at same price. 1060 3gb is
already outdated because of 3gb.. 6gb is 4-5k more..

4)Ups ..
you need to get a higher Va ups..
active pfc psu demand higher VA .. go with cheaper brands
.. this is a tricky area .. search well...

5 )
CPU .. see g4560 is obviously not future proof.. and you are aiming for highly CPU intensive games, a recent i5 / true quad would still be around 35-40% faster in pure multi threading performance than g4560. .. so when the game fully taxes all 4 threads it will show... but g4560 is also equal to 2nd gen core i5 2300 in multi threading.. so its a great CPU for the price..
but it has its limits ..question is are those limits good for you or not ?

so look at g4560 + rx 470/570 on crysis 3 on YouTube.. and other CPU intensive games . if you like the fps numbers then go for it.. if not then just push your budget and wait for Ryzen 3..

no other option...
do you know w

6) don't buy anything online unless you can't find something . go for offline only .. most things are cheaper offline... and you from Delhi so . Nehru place only..
Motherboard - Do H110 boards support ddr2400 ram? AFAIK one has to move to b250 for that support.

PSU - How do you know which PSUs are good quality and which aren't? Are there any quality reviews for the antec vp series?

CPU - I'll wait for ryzen 3. I expect IPC to be lower than intel's as with the ryzen 5 and 7 but expect multicore performance to be far better. Hopefully ryzen 3 will be overclockable. Really dont feel like giving money to intel because of their past practices. Absolutely hate that they keep changing sockets!

Shops - Can you suggest some shops in Delhi? Two i know are cost-to-cost and smc international.
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Old 30-05-17   #24
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Yes H110 supports 2133 mhz.B250 supports 2400 mhz.
For PSU go for Antec VP550P.
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Old 30-05-17   #25
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Originally Posted by isaac12345 View Post
Motherboard - Do H110 boards support ddr2400 ram? AFAIK one has to move to b250 for that support.
From what I know 2133 MHz speed limitation is mainly due to 6th Gen CPU..
Not mainly because of boards I think... not too sure..


Asus H110M- D lists support for 2400 MHz with 7th Gen CPU
and 2133 with 6th Gen...

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H1...pecifications/


PSU - How do you know which PSUs are good quality and which aren't? Are there any quality reviews for the antec vp series?
From reviews , looking at internal images for capacitors , OEM etc..

Choose antec or any other brand from below..

PSU Review Database - RealHardTechX


CPU - I'll wait for ryzen 3. I expect IPC to be lower than intel's as with the ryzen 5 and 7 but expect multicore performance to be far better. Hopefully ryzen 3 will be overclockable. Really dont feel like giving money to intel because of their past practices. Absolutely hate that they keep changing sockets!

Shops - Can you suggest some shops in Delhi? Two i kwnow are cost-to-cost and smc international.
best is to go with ryzen 3 .. all ryzen Cpu will be overockable. But then you will ha e to buy a B350 board for 8k
A320 board @5k with ryzen 3 x variant or so would probably be cheaper.. but that depends how ryzen 3 will be priced..

Don't know about shops..[COLOR="Silver"]

[.

Last edited by wolverine1; 31-05-17 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 31-05-17   #26
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Originally Posted by wolverine1 View Post
From what I know 2133 MHz speed limitation is mainly due to 6th Gen CPU..
Not mainly because of boards I think... not too sure..


Asus H110M- D lists support for 2400 MHz with 7th Gen CPU
and 2133 with 6th Gen...

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H1...pecifications/



From reviews , looking at internal images for capacitors , OEM etc..

Choose antec or any other brand from below..

PSU Review Database - RealHardTechX


best is to go with ryzen 3 .. all ryzen Cpu will be overockable. But then you will ha e to buy a B350 board for 8k
A320 board @5k with ryzen 3 x variant or so would probably be cheaper.. but that depends how ryzen 3 will be priced..

Don't know about shops..[COLOR="Silver"]

[.
Thanks for looking up the motherboard for me. Should save some more money And for the PSU database as well.

As for windows 10, I havent used it yet but a friend mentioned that one can use it and receive security updates even without registering a key. Is that so?

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Seems like my PSU is not that bad at all! - Corsair CX430 430W power supply Review
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Old 31-05-17   #27
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

Originally Posted by isaac12345 View Post
Thanks for looking up the motherboard for me. Should save some more money And for the PSU database as well.

As for windows 10, I havent used it yet but a friend mentioned that one can use it and receive security updates even without registering a key. Is that so?

---------- Post added at 01:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Seems like my PSU is not that bad at all! - Corsair CX430 430W power supply Review

They are good for basic system with low power gpu only which is what Corsair advertises in that case they'll last around 4 years

Rx570 is going to put a lot of stress on those caps with 180watts , rough estimate they will hold good for another 5-6 months... But don't push CX 430 beyond total 2 year mark with RX 570 in any case

Rest your choice , PSU failure can easily kill GPU , Mobo , HDD along with it ..even good ones .. having good ones ensures longevity and avoid that situation.

Last edited by wolverine1; 26-01-18 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 31-05-17   #28
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Re: Suggest Parts for 40K Pls

@wolverine1
Looks like he's going to keep that PSU no matter what we say so no point trying to convince him otherwise. For his sake, I hope you're wrong and the unit Johnny Guru reviewed is what he has and can handle a 570. If not and if it goes pear shaped, well, he'll only have himself to blame.

@isaac12345
I didn't suggest the 470 because its cheaper, I suggested it because its power draw is quite a bit less than the 570's and wouldn't tax your PSU as much. Its a 40-50W difference at full load and given your PSU, could be the difference between a working system and dead components. If you get a 570, you'll probably have to underclock/undervolt/maybe even lower the power limit a bit to reduce the potential risk of your PSU blowing up and taking your shiny new components with it. Anyway, do as you please but a little story before you do -

I had a "600W" PSU once. Powered my 7850 fine for about 2 years. Hell I was even foolishly considering buying a 280X since a 550W PSU is what's recommended. Then one night, out of nowhere, in the middle of a gaming session, the power went out. Found out the circuit breaker had been tripped. But after restoring power, my PC wouldn't turn on. Then I noticed the smell. Turned out the PSU had blown up and tripped the circuit breaker. For about 15 mins, I couldn't touch the damn thing cause it was burning hot. Could have easily fried an egg on it. No jokes. That's when I went out and got a Seasonic. Luckily my components were fine. You might not be so lucky though.
Moral of the story : Don't cheap out on PSUs.

As for Win 10 updates go, yes, you'll probably get them. As far as I know, unlike older MS OSs, Win 10's core functionality isn't disabled once the trial period is done. An activation watermark and everything under Personalization being greyed out seem to be the only limitations imposed.
https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you...se-windows-10/
https://www.windowscentral.com/you-d...ate-windows-10
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Last edited by Submerged; 02-06-17 at 01:20 PM.
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