Erodov.com Forums | India's Top Technology forum.
Loading

navigation start navigation end
Go Back   Erodov.com Forums | India's Top Technology forum. > Electronics and Consumer Durables > Cameras and Photography Equipment
Register Forgot Password?

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13-04-14   #16
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
All that .. And the main drawback (that you didn't mentioned) is that the A3000 dosen't let you shoot images just seperately in RAW.
That's like a huge flaw.

Even the Nikon 1 J1 let's you do that. Also the J1 beats the A3K in clicking less grainy (noise) pictures.
I highly doubt a 1" aptina sensor in the J1 can match the state of the art Sony APS-C sensor in A3000.

The A3000 just demolishes the J1 with regard to image quality and noise,even the Sony RX100 is better then nikon mirrorless.The A3000 scores nearly 3 times more in ISO then the J1 in DXO mark and even beats all the canon APS-C sensor DSLRs.

The nikon 1" sensor based mirrorless cameras are a half hearted effort from Nikon.

With regard to Raw, well its does give you the option to shoot Raw+jpeg and the vast majority of the people don't even touch raw and considering the consumer sony is targeting, I don't think its a big deal.I personally know a lot of people who have a 7d,5d etc who haven't touched RAW and many for that matter don't even go past the auto mode.
__________________
X band Radar
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-14   #17
Patient_Zero
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
Zombie Enthusiast
 
 
realandR3cys's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kolkata, WB
Posts: 2,311
realandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly Admirable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by adder View Post
The A3000 just demolishes the J1 with regard to image quality and noise,even the Sony RX100 is better then nikon mirrorless.The A3000 scores nearly 3 times more in ISO then the J1 in DXO mark
Don't ever go with DXOMark scores, or even those crappy comparison sites.
Always compare real-life shots.
In DXOMark, the D5100 beats the 600D by a wide margin - but in real-life if you actually compare pictures taken by those two, you can hardly distinguish between them. Such is the slight difference.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
even beats all the canon APS-C sensor DSLRs.
That's not true.
The APS-C sensor on this Sony has more grain than competitive APS-C ones, that includes the much entry-level Canon 550D/1100D & Nikon D3100/D3200.
And even the Nikon 1 J1 like i said, which even dosen't have an APS-C sensor.
So, having just an APS-C sensor dosen't make it better.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
With regard to Raw, well its does give you the option to shoot Raw+jpeg and the vast majority of the people don't even touch raw and considering the consumer sony is targeting, I don't think its a big deal.
Well .. that dosen't justify even 1% why the feature isn't there, when other competitors are providing at a lesser price.
Why would even Sony implement this restriction? What's the use of RAW-JPEG? I really want to know the benefit.

For a guy, who uses/even starting to use dSLRs, no seperate RAW support is like having a phone without USB, even though it has bluetooth.
I have been shooting in RAW for the last 4 yrs, and anyone who does the same will tell you the same thing.
realandR3cys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-14   #18
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
ratheeshkannan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 168
ratheeshkannan is very Notable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

The main aspect which i considered while entering photography is the user interface and feedback from my friends. The user interface of canon is so damn easy and quick. The feedback from two of my friends using Nikon is not positive. One guy was upset about the auto focus motor issue of the Nikon and other guy about the hidden features like iso settings of Nikon. UI wise you'll get used to the Nikon system but it'll take time. But Canon is extremely easy to use and you can get used to most of the stuffs in days. Choosing a system is a long term investment. You can change the brand anytime but most of the people wont do. Go to any store and check how you're feeling about it.
__________________
AMD Phenom II x4 965 BE 3.4GHz (OC In Progress) -=- ASUS - M5A97 R2.0 -=- ASUS AMD HD 7970 CU II Top -=- Transcend DDR3 1333 4Gb x 2 -=- Seagate 2tb SATA III -=- ADATA Premier Pro 64 GB SSD Internal Hard Drive - SATA III -=- Corsair TX650M -=- NZXT Phantom 410 - Samsung 22x - DVD Combo drive -=- Asus Xonar DG Soundcard -=- Creative T6060 5.1 Speakers -=- TVS Bharath Gold Mechanical Keyboard -=- Razer Naga Mouse -=- Logitech C310 - HD Webcam -=- Dell 2420L FHD 24" LED -=- APC 650 -=- Antec Kuhler 920 Liquid CPU Cooler -=-

Canon 70D -=- Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM | C -=- Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens -=- Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Lens -=- Nissin Di866 MARK II (For Canon) Flash -=- Lowepro Orion DayPack 200 Backpack -=-
ratheeshkannan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-14   #19
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 297
adder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominent
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Don't ever go with DXOMark scores, or even those crappy comparison sites.
Always compare real-life shots.
In DXOMark, the D5100 beats the 600D by a wide margin - but in real-life if you actually compare pictures taken by those two, you can hardly distinguish between them. Such is the slight difference.
I have to disagree with that and even if the numbers of DXO mark doesn't translate into same proportional real world difference,like it or not the images of D5100 still look better,even if one had to pixel peep .The nikon version of Sony/Toshiba sensor simply are better in all parameters.If they aren't you wouldn't see people in dpreview opening threads desperate for better sensors from canon or even asking them to outright use Sony/Toshiba sensors.

When i was looking for DSLR under 45k, some 2 years back. I considered every brand including Canon and in the end it didn't even make it to my shortlist which was between Nikon D5100 and Sony SLT.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
That's not true.
The APS-C sensor on this Sony has more grain than competitive APS-C ones, that includes the much entry-level Canon 550D/1100D & Nikon D3100/D3200.
And even the Nikon 1 J1 like i said, which even dosen't have an APS-C sensor.
So, having just an APS-C sensor dosen't make it better.
Again ,I have to disagree . From the various comparison images out there .The Nikon 1" sensor is more noisy compared to all current APS-C cameras including canons and for that matter even the current Sony M4/3 sensors found in Olympus cameras.While that Sony sensor is behind the one in nikon APS-C cameras ,its still edges out all the rebel series from Canon.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Well .. that dosen't justify even 1% why the feature isn't there, when other competitors are providing at a lesser price.
Why would even Sony implement this restriction? What's the use of RAW-JPEG? I really want to know the benefit.

For a guy, who uses/even starting to use dSLRs, no seperate RAW support is like having a phone without USB, even though it has bluetooth.
I have been shooting in RAW for the last 4 yrs, and anyone who does the same will tell you the same thing.
It a missing feature ,I agree.
But bare in mind this a $250 camera with kit lens .This camera is aimed for people who just use JPEG and they won't even venture past Auto mode,

I use both raw + jpeg option for events that are significant and for events that are insignificant like a auto expo etc I don't even bother with raw.

If one uses RAW for each and every photo coming out of the camera ,well good for them.
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-14   #20
Patient_Zero
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
Zombie Enthusiast
 
 
realandR3cys's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kolkata, WB
Posts: 2,311
realandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly Admirable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by adder View Post
I have to disagree with that and even if the numbers of DXO mark doesn't translate into same proportional real world difference,like it or not the images of D5100 still look better,even if one had to pixel peep .
Not at all.
Throw away those petty bundled lens. Just mount some prime lens, take potraits, and you wouldn't even notice the difference.

The only place where D5100 beats 600D, is it's ISO performance that mainly (besides low-light) transmits to when cropping.
Cropping a pic on the Nikon makes it less grainy than Canon. And that's it.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
The nikon version of Sony/Toshiba sensor simply are better in all parameters.If they aren't you wouldn't see people in dpreview opening threads desperate for better sensors from canon or even asking them to outright use Sony/Toshiba sensors.
Wait.
Are you outrightly saying that Canon sensors are inferior?
I mean, there's a reason why Canon rules the Pro & Super-Pro market; there's a reason why a 5D Mark III owns a similar Pro dSLR like the Nikon D800.

Your general statement towards Canon made me chuckle a bit.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
While that Sony sensor is behind the one in nikon APS-C cameras ,its still edges out all the rebel series from Canon.
If you're saying it even beats the 600D/650D and the likes, then you're very very wrong.
The A3000 is on the same level as a 1100D/D3100. The IQ is no worse, even though 1100D has an older sensor.

Also you do know when a budding photographer buys a dSLR, he also looks at upgrade paths and the community support.

Sonys' have a much much limited upgrade path compared to Nikon and Canon, and are also less popular (which makes it harder to find support, borrow gear from friends, etc.). Canon as a brand has better video options because of Magic Lantern (custom firmware that drastically increases the video capabilities of certain Canon cameras).

Originally Posted by adder View Post
It a missing feature ,I agree.
But bare in mind this a $250 camera with kit lens .This camera is aimed for people who just use JPEG and they won't even venture past Auto mode
You're forgetting one big thing - all it's competitor dSLRs provide that basic capability.
I'll tell you why there isn't any RAW support in A3000 cause it's for the "ignorant" folk. It's a "big good camera" (an SLR) and it's cheap (no OVF, super plasticky). Ignorant folk have no clue or use for raw.
The only reason they put raw in is for the few people who know what they're doing, but they don't want you to ever go without a JPEG. Ignorant folk will think their raw files need defragmenting or virus cleaning. They will return the camera.
A3000 is built too cheap.
And i'll definately never recommend this even over an 1100D.

And that's pretty much what i wanted to say.
ManISinJpr likes this.
realandR3cys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-14   #21
teh zeuS!
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
FUUUUU !
 
 
Stuge's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delhi
Posts: 3,101
Stuge is extemely Distinguished
Stuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely DistinguishedStuge is extemely Distinguished
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Image Quality Image Quality ..what the hell !!!

Thread starter is a learner/beginner .. Question is does Image Quality translates into Good quality pictures ?? A BIG NO

TO the thread starter ,hold both the camera's i.e 600D and D3200..Now,camera which feels more comfortable in your hand is one for you .. period .. ! Both are excellent camera's and will serve the purpose .
ManISinJpr likes this.
__________________
Even the venomous snake on the planet isn't venomous as Humans .We humans have poisoned the planet for our own greed, and have put the future of all the living beings into
jeopardy.


Flickr Photography
Facebook Photography Page
Stuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-04-14   #22
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 297
adder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominent
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Not at all.
Throw away those petty bundled lens. Just mount some prime lens, take potraits, and you wouldn't even notice the difference.

The only place where D5100 beats 600D, is it's ISO performance that mainly (besides low-light) transmits to when cropping.
Cropping a pic on the Nikon makes it less grainy than Canon. And that's it.
When both camera have a similar performing lens, it boils down to the sensor and the new Sony/toshiba sensor have nearly a stop more of sensitivity.

Then there is the dynamic range and it matters ,look at the below video .Rumor is the sensor is probably making it to Nikon D7XX.
Now if you look in the video you can see that the superior ISO performance and the fire which is not significantly blown out despite at such ISO,thats due to the dynamic range of the sensor (with help of onboard SLOG2 ) The sensor in the canon 1D-C/X cannot match that.This high dynamic range is very useful for video people ,where they don't have DRO or HDR.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Wait.
Are you outrightly saying that Canon sensors are inferior?
I mean, there's a reason why Canon rules the Pro & Super-Pro market; there's a reason why a 5D Mark III owns a similar Pro dSLR like the Nikon D800.

Your general statement towards Canon made me chuckle a bit.
Well they are inferior as of today.Like i said earlier ,if you look in dpreview forums people are desperately asking canon for new sensor or even asking them to use sensor from Sony/Toshiba and they are those people who have lot of glass in canon.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
If you're saying it even beats the 600D/650D and the likes, then you're very very wrong.
The A3000 is on the same level as a 1100D/D3100. The IQ is no worse, even though 1100D has an older sensor
As i said earlier ,the A3000 on the whole is inferior due to poor build and AF ,but if one just compare only image aspect then its superior.Bare in mind the A3000 has 2mp more then even the 650D and 8mp more compared to 1100D ,yet its sensor is superior.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Also you do know when a budding photographer buys a dSLR, he also looks at upgrade paths and the community support.

Sonys' have a much much limited upgrade path compared to Nikon and Canon, and are also less popular (which makes it harder to find support, borrow gear from friends, etc.). Canon as a brand has better video options because of Magic Lantern (custom firmware that drastically increases the video capabilities of certain Canon cameras).
Its true Sony has lesser lenses,but they have most of the essential lenses covered ,they may not have some PRO lenses used in sports or tilt shift lenses but they do have Zeiss with AF which no one else has.They also have Tamron and Sigma,Tokino etc lenses and recently they took 51% stake in Olympus and in a press release have said Olympus lens expertise will be coming for Sony lenses.
With the E-mount camera anyone can use any lenses they want including canon or nikon or leica.

So ,if i am one of those people who has invested heavily in canon lenses and shoot lots of landscape and I want more MegaPixels like in the D800E then i can use a A7R or if i want the absolute best low light camera or i am into video then its the A7S .
So ,the E-mount cameras makes sense albeit with some compromise like slow or no AF on Canon,nikon lenses .
Its only a matter of time before we some hacks similar to ML.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
You're forgetting one big thing - all it's competitor dSLRs provide that basic capability.
I'll tell you why there isn't any RAW support in A3000 cause it's for the "ignorant" folk. It's a "big good camera" (an SLR) and it's cheap (no OVF, super plasticky). Ignorant folk have no clue or use for raw.
The only reason they put raw in is for the few people who know what they're doing, but they don't want you to ever go without a JPEG. Ignorant folk will think their raw files need defragmenting or virus cleaning. They will return the camera.
A3000 is built too cheap.
And i'll definately never recommend this even over an 1100D.

And that's pretty much what i wanted to say.
Once again while i agree that feature would have cost nothing to Sony.Its the lowest priced ILC camera on the earth.Its the same price as those crappy P&S cameras ,yet the image quality is on a different level.

Last edited by adder; 21-04-14 at 06:41 PM.
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #23
Patient_Zero
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
Zombie Enthusiast
 
 
realandR3cys's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kolkata, WB
Posts: 2,311
realandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly Admirable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Its the lowest priced ILC camera on the earth.Its the same price as those crappy P&S cameras ,yet the image quality is on a different level.
The A3000 costs just as much as the superiors D5100/D3200.
So, basically all of your logic goes out of the window.
Why would even anyone think of such option?

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Its true Sony has lesser lenses,but they have most of the essential lenses covered ,they may not have some PRO lenses used in sports or tilt shift lenses but they do have Zeiss with AF which no one else has.They also have Tamron and Sigma,Tokino etc lenses and recently they took 51% stake in Olympus and in a press release have said Olympus lens expertise will be coming for Sony lenses.
Dude it's 2014.
When Sony bought Konica in '06, i thought that maybe we could see more variety of lens, which still hasn't happened yet.
And seriously, no guy today would choose a path which has limited support, over Canon/Nikon's huge selection, and mostly in the 2nd hand market.
Nowadays, anyone who buy a dSLR looks for huge automatic lens selection. Acc. to a recent survey by LenRentals, Canon's 24-70/70-200 are the best selling lens in the 2nd hand market category.

That tells a lot right?
So, if you want to go Pro with lens, why even think of Sony, when you get so much support from the other two (unless Sony changes this drastically).

Originally Posted by adder View Post
As i said earlier ,the A3000 on the whole is inferior due to poor build and AF ,but if one just compare only image aspect then its superior.Bare in mind the A3000 has 2mp more then even the 650D and 8mp more compared to 1100D ,yet its sensor is superior.
New sensor =/= Better sensor
I repeat it again - there's nothing extraordinary/special thing about the A3000 over a D3100/1100D. The sensor is nothing great like your exaggeration.
There are a millions of instances where a overall great camera beats a cam with more feats. in IQ.

Ignorant folks will say the Sony A77 beats the Canon 7D by only looking at feats - but a guy who actually knows and used both two, the 7D will blow the A77 in IQ.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Well they are inferior as of today.Like i said earlier ,if you look in dpreview forums people are desperately asking canon for new sensor or even asking them to use sensor from Sony/Toshiba and they are those people who have lot of glass in canon.
You seriously don't call a camera inferior just because the spec sheet shows that or some review say that, until you used them.
Just because Canon uses old sensors, and Sony brings "NEW" ones with some marketing, dosen't make Canon bad. Not even by 0.01%

And i know DPR and their forums. People there are pretty biased sometimes. You know, there are much better places to discuss unbiased Photography, incl. Flickr, where people are a lot more logical.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
he Then there is the dynamic range and it matters ,look at the below video .Rumor is the sensor is probably making it to Nikon D7XX.
Now if you look in the video you can see that the superior ISO performance and the fire which is not significantly blown out despite at such ISO,thats due to the dynamic range of the sensor (with help of onboard SLOG2 ) The sensor in the canon 1D-C/X cannot match that.This high dynamic range is very useful for video people ,where they don't have DRO or HDR.
Indeed!
DR matters very much.
But there's a lot more to a 1DX than a DR.
A 1DX sensor can do infinite wonders (and that 61p AF), that you can't even dream of, and that A7S dosen't even come slightly close to it.

So, the comparison is just as futile as our discussion.
ManISinJpr likes this.
realandR3cys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #24
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 297
adder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominent
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
The A3000 costs just as much as the superiors D5100/D3200.
So, basically all of your logic goes out of the window.
Why would even anyone think of such option?
Look at the street price it was available for as low as $250 Sony Alpha A3000 20MP Digital Camera for $250 + free shipping - EMSNILCE3000KB
Like i said if one is looking at that price point nothing comes close.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Dude it's 2014.
When Sony bought Konica in '06, i thought that maybe we could see more variety of lens, which still hasn't happened yet.
And seriously, no guy today would choose a path which has limited support, over Canon/Nikon's huge selection, and mostly in the 2nd hand market.
Nowadays, anyone who buy a dSLR looks for huge automatic lens selection. Acc. to a recent survey by LenRentals, Canon's 24-70/70-200 are the best selling lens in the 2nd hand market category.

That tells a lot right?
So, if you want to go Pro with lens, why even think of Sony, when you get so much support from the other two (unless Sony changes this drastically).
All essential lenses are covered for consumers.If you are a sports photographer then Sony is not for you,they don't have a lens more then 500mm.You still have third party lenses for the A-mount with higher focal length and besides Sony never made bodies for to rival 1d or D4s.They are not after that market at all.

For the rest of the people ,you have minolta A mout lenses from 1984 and Sony lenses and all work on 2013 A-mount bodies .
For Sony E-mount cameras A-Mount lenses including lenses from 1984 minolta will work with full DSLR speed AF on all E-Mount cameras with a adaptor .Try getting that speed with a EOS-M camera and EF/S lens adaptor etc.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
New sensor =/= Better sensor
I repeat it again - there's nothing extraordinary/special thing about the A3000 over a D3100/1100D. The sensor is nothing great like your exaggeration.
There are a millions of instances where a overall great camera beats a cam with more feats. in IQ.

Ignorant folks will say the Sony A77 beats the Canon 7D by only looking at feats - but a guy who actually knows and used both two, the 7D will blow the A77 in IQ.
I never compared it to nikon, i only said vs canon sensors.
If you look back to the beginning of the argument,you will notice that its you who made it this vs that.I never said as a whole the A3000 is bettter.I have repeatedly said again and again that if one is talking about the image quality alone then the A3000 is superior due to its superior sensor.

7D is a fine camera ,so is the A77 .Both have pros and cons and afaik A77 is positioned against a 60D type camera.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
You seriously don't call a camera inferior just because the spec sheet shows that or some review say that, until you used them.
Just because Canon uses old sensors, and Sony brings "NEW" ones with some marketing, dosen't make Canon bad. Not even by 0.01%

And i know DPR and their forums. People there are pretty biased sometimes. You know, there are much better places to discuss unbiased Photography, incl. Flickr, where people are a lot more logical.
You said whether i am saying the canon sensor is inferior,So i said yes and only said the sensor of canon is inferior, end of story.

You don't see people in Nikon or Sony forums complaining about their sensors.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Indeed!
DR matters very much.
But there's a lot more to a 1DX than a DR.
A 1DX sensor can do infinite wonders (and that 61p AF), that you can't even dream of, and that A7S dosen't even come slightly close to it.

So, the comparison is just as futile as our discussion.
I never said anything about 1Dx as a whole.
I posted that to show how much more the Sony/toshiba sensors have the edge compared to the canon not only do they have the edge in high iso performance but also in DR and color depth.
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #25
Patient_Zero
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
Zombie Enthusiast
 
 
realandR3cys's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kolkata, WB
Posts: 2,311
realandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly Admirable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by adder View Post
All essential lenses are covered for consumers.If you are a sports photographer and want to go serious/PRO with photography then Sony is not for you
FTFY.
You don't see a serious photographer buying a dSLR and not looking at the upgrade lens path.
Almost every one today, even all my friends who have converted to dSLRs look at the lens market, the support.
You have a couple of relatives/friends who own Nikon, therefore you obviously would want to go with that.
Even many many people like the 2nd hand market, and for that it's either Canon/Nikon.
It's a fact, and there is no argument to even go with Sony if you want the intensive lens support. Everyone knows this, and it's futile to even argue.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
I never compared it to nikon, i only said vs canon sensors.
If you look back to the beginning of the argument,you will notice that its you who made it this vs that.I never said as a whole the A3000 is bettter.I have repeatedly said again and again that if one is talking about the image quality alone then the A3000 is superior due to its superior sensor.

7D is a fine camera ,so is the A77 .Both have pros and cons and afaik A77 is positioned against a 60D type camera.
Okay.
Let me re-phrase that : there's nothing extraordinary/special thing about the A3000 over a D3100 / 1100D.
If a new sensor makes you think that it's superior, then i don't know what to say.
Especially when a 1100D costs a whopping 4K less.

And nope. The price of A77 is a direct competitor w.r.t Price of 7D in India. The Canon costs less actually.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
You said whether i am saying the canon sensor is inferior,So i said yes and only said the sensor of canon is inferior, end of story.

You don't see people in Nikon or Sony forums complaining about their sensors.
It's good that you don't like Canon. You don't like their products, and there are people who don't prefer Canon like Nikon/Sony/Fuji.
But that dosen't mean that you should stereotype each one of their products.
If an old sensor can give a newer sensor a run for it's money (7D v A77), i think it's fine. "If it's not broken, don't fix it".
As for me, i'll go anyway which gives me more VFM.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
I never said anything about 1Dx as a whole.
I posted that to show how much more the Sony/toshiba sensors have the edge compared to the canon not only do they have the edge in high iso performance but also in DR and color depth.
See.
This is where the problem arises - you stereotype each and every Canon product, without using them.
IDK what you have against Canon, but you can't seem to like not even one of their products. You words literally say that you hate them. I highly doubt if you have ever used a good Canon dSLR thoroughly, cause then you wouldn't have said these things.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Look at the street price it was available for as low as $250 Sony Alpha A3000 20MP Digital Camera for $250 + free shipping - EMSNILCE3000KB
Like i said if one is looking at that price point nothing comes close.
Here in India, the same thing costs a whopping 25K
That clearly puts it with the superior ones that i mentioned. The price is a waste here. Really.

Amazon.in: Buying Choices: Sony Alpha ILCE-3000 Mirrorless Digital SLR Camera (Black) with 20.1 Megapixel, Bag

Last edited by realandR3cys; 22-04-14 at 10:52 AM.
realandR3cys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #26
teh geeK!
[E]onian
Time has come to show
 
 
ronnie_gogs's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,970
ronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Greatronnie_gogs is simply Great
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

My recommendation would be mirror-less cameras.

Less hassle, lighter on vacations, loads of lens options, excellent image quality.

EPL3 for 21k Olympus PEN Lite E-PL3 Mirrorless Camera Rs.21242 Price in India - Buy Olympus PEN Lite E-PL3 Mirrorless Camera Black Online - Olympus: Flipkart.com

Very good camera and would serve you well.. You can learn all you want and move to higher end if you want to in future...
__________________
ronnie_gogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #27
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 297
adder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominent
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
FTFY.
You don't see a serious photographer buying a dSLR and not looking at the upgrade lens path.
Almost every one today, even all my friends who have converted to dSLRs look at the lens market, the support.
You have a couple of relatives/friends who own Nikon, therefore you obviously would want to go with that.
Even many many people like the 2nd hand market, and for that it's either Canon/Nikon.
It's a fact, and there is no argument to even go with Sony if you want the intensive lens support. Everyone knows this, and it's futile to even argue.
You can get as serious with a Sony.I said its not suitable for sports type shooting .
Its perfectly fine for everything else and if you want to continue arguing the same points,then lets agree to disagree.

FYI with a E-mount you can put any damn lens on it and some even do AF and makes canon lens brighter with a speed booster.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Okay.
Let me re-phrase that : there's nothing extraordinary/special thing about the A3000 over a D3100 / 1100D.
If a new sensor makes you think that it's superior, then i don't know what to say.
Especially when a 1100D costs a whopping 4K less.

And nope. The price of A77 is a direct competitor w.r.t Price of 7D in India. The Canon costs less actually.
Please look back at the posts in this thread and see how your argument started and changes and what i said .I have nothing more to say.
If you still did't understand then For the last time i am again saying if one considers the aspect of image quality alone then the A3000 is a good camera better then a similar priced canon.

In my first post i pointed out the drawbacks of the A3000.So just reflect on what you said and how it started and what i said.
As far as the price equation it was to point out its a low budget camera and what kind of market Sony is look at which are P&S customers who want DSLR image quality.

As for the 7D its to old now and due for replacement ,the A77 is a newer camera compared to 7D (also due for replacement next month )and its not aimed at the 7D.Even though the price of it may now be similar.



Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
It's good that you don't like Canon. You don't like their products, and there are people who don't prefer Canon like Nikon/Sony/Fuji.
But that dosen't mean that you should stereotype each one of their products.
If an old sensor can give a newer sensor a run for it's money (7D v A77), i think it's fine. "If it's not broken, don't fix it".
As for me, i'll go anyway which gives me more VFM
I can say the same that you don't like Sony and you should't stereo type each of their products.
The latest sensor in the 70D and 6D is new and still behind competition.



Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
See.
This is where the problem arises - you stereotype each and every Canon product, without using them.
IDK what you have against Canon, but you can't seem to like not even one of their products. You words literally say that you hate them. I highly doubt if you have ever used a good Canon dSLR thoroughly, cause then you wouldn't have said these things.
Where did i say 1Dx is a bad camera or i hate canon.
Is the 1Dx a good camera absolutely,is its AF system and metering system,buffer and weather sealing better then any Sony DSLR ,absolutely.
The whole point is their sensors are behind the competition.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Here in India, the same thing costs a whopping 25K
That clearly puts it with the superior ones that i mentioned. The price is a waste here. Really.

Amazon.in: Buying Choices: Sony Alpha ILCE-3000 Mirrorless Digital SLR Camera (Black) with 20.1 Megapixel, Bag
True in india its costs more,but you have to look back at my post as to why i brought up the US $250 price.
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #28
Patient_Zero
Pr[e]f[e]rr[e]d M[e]mb[e]r
Zombie Enthusiast
 
 
realandR3cys's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kolkata, WB
Posts: 2,311
realandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly AdmirablerealandR3cys is highly Admirable
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Its perfectly fine for everything else and if you want to continue arguing the same points,then lets agree to disagree.

FYI with a E-mount you can put any damn lens on it and some even do AF and makes canon lens brighter with a speed booster.
You don't get my point, do you?
Sony E-mount lenses are very costly.
Sony's lens market is still at it's native stage and it needs to grow. Where people can get Canon/Nikon for more cheaper prices, the same lens is quite costly for Sony.
Same is for the 2nd hand market.
People want a cheap way to upgrade their lens, and for that Sony have much much scarce support. YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE.
But no, you don't understand this, and still suggest Sony.
Why even go for a platform which is still blooming? Think about this, and you'll get the answer.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Please look back at the posts in this thread and see how your argument started and changes and what i said .
Let's see.

1. First it was A3000 vs J1.

2. Then you said that the APS-C sensor in A3K -
even beats all the canon APS-C sensor DSLRs.
3. Then you said that the sensor in the A3K,
still edges out all the rebel series from Canon
4. Now your present statement is,
A3000 is a good camera better then a similar priced canon
, while i still repeated the same thing that the A3K is on the same levels as a 1100D and the D3100.
Am i missing something?

Originally Posted by adder View Post
the A77 is a newer camera compared to 7D (also due for replacement next month) and its not aimed at the 7D.Even though the price of it may now be similar.
So you do agree that Sony dSLRs are overpriced.
I have seen the same with the A3K.
And dude, if two products both are priced the same, why shouldn't i compare? Is Sony going to sue me? Seriously.
And BTW the feats. of A77 directly puts up to the 7D.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
I can say the same that you don't like Sony and you should't stereo type each of their products.
Dude don't charge me for something i haven't done yet.
The only thing i'm hating about those Sonys' i mentioned is their overpriced state, and i guess i've clearly stated it in every post of mine.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
Where did i say 1Dx is a bad camera or i hate canon.
Is the 1Dx a good camera absolutely,is its AF system and metering system,buffer and weather sealing better then any Sony DSLR ,absolutely.
The whole point is their sensors are behind the competition.
Okay.

Originally Posted by adder View Post
True in india its costs more,but you have to look back at my post as to why i brought up the US $250 price.
See mate. I'm living in India. If i'm gonna judge some product's price, i'm definately gonna do it in INR. And NOT IN US $$.
It's funny how fanboism can make you defy all logic.
realandR3cys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-14   #29
teh pretendeR!
[E]onian
I havent set my status yet.
 
 
adder's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: bangalore
Posts: 297
adder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominentadder is highly Prominent
Re: Entry Level SLR Camera or a Good Point & Shoot Camera

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
You don't get my point, do you?
Sony E-mount lenses are very costly.
Sony's lens market is still at it's native stage and it needs to grow. Where people can get Canon/Nikon for more cheaper prices, the same lens is quite costly for Sony.
Same is for the 2nd hand market.
People want a cheap way to upgrade their lens, and for that Sony have much much scarce support. YOU HAVE TO PAY MORE.
But no, you don't understand this, and still suggest Sony.
Why even go for a platform which is still blooming? Think about this, and you'll get the answer.
Most Sony E-mount lenses have inbuilt IS and already have a silent focus motor and metal mount and metal body.Hence it can't be compared to some cheap plastic lenses.If you look at A-mount lenses they are cheap,some of the lenses like 70-400G is even cheaper then the canon 100-400 and they are on the same level optically.
Sony has the largest share in mirrorless cameras worldwide and in some countries they outsell canon or nikon DSLRs.
Lots of people who have a existing canon or nikon cameras still have a E-mount body.

When canon was a newbie back some many many years ago people should have asked why go for a platform which is still blooming.You will get the answer.
People said the same thing about the blooming D-SLR vs film SLR look where we are now.

The general opinion in various forums are the future is mirrorless and thats the way its going to be.If i had to choose a camera now i would have gone with a mirrorless camera instead of the traditional bulky DSLR
Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post

Let's see.

1. First it was A3000 vs J1.

2. Then you said that the APS-C sensor in A3K -

3. Then you said that the sensor in the A3K,

4. Now your present statement is, , while i still repeated the same thing that the A3K is on the same levels as a 1100D and the D3100.
Am i missing something?
You made it a A3000 vs J1 and you said J1 is better.
I always maintained that APS-C will have the edge vesus a tiny 1" sensor .And compared to canon the Sony sensor is superior.I have never said A3000 is superior on all points .Again read my first post.I always and even now maintain that if one looks at only the image quality aspect then the A3000 is better due to its sensor compared to the Canon rebel series.I have never said anything about the D3100.
What part do you not understand i made it crystal clear.

Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
So you do agree that Sony dSLRs are overpriced.
I have seen the same with the A3K.
And dude, if two products both are priced the same, why shouldn't i compare? Is Sony going to sue me? Seriously.
And BTW the feats. of A77 directly puts up to the 7D.
Not all cameras are overpriced ,when i bought my camera it was cheaper then the US price.If the price drops sure yes one can compare.But when it was launched it was not positioned against a 7D its more like a D7000 rival when it was launched.


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Dude don't charge me for something i haven't done yet.
The only thing i'm hating about those Sonys' i mentioned is their overpriced state, and i guess i've clearly stated it in every post of mine.
So why are you saying i hate canon.I only maintained that there sensors are inferior.
So now you hear hate the Sony for its price .


Originally Posted by realandR3cys View Post
Okay.



See mate. I'm living in India. If i'm gonna judge some product's price, i'm definately gonna do it in INR. And NOT IN US $$.
It's funny how fanboism can make you defy all logic.
If you look at the first post again you still don't understand.If one reads them with hate glasses one cannot understand.

Last edited by adder; 22-04-14 at 08:07 PM.
adder is offline   Reply With Quote
Post New Thread  Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suggest a Good Point and Shoot Camera Under Rs.15k Bodmas Cameras and Photography Equipment 24 27-10-14 10:40 AM
WTBOther Urgent: Camera (Point & Shoot or Similar) sato1986 Closed/Completed Deals 3 16-12-13 10:17 AM
SaleOther Panasonic FZ100 + Camera Bags, Kodak, Yashika Camera vercetti Closed/Completed Deals 2 05-09-11 05:12 PM
Good Camera arian29 Cameras and Photography Equipment 0 31-07-10 04:53 PM
good camera bag? 6pack Everything Under the Sun 13 26-06-08 09:20 AM


Tags
camera, entry, good, level, point, point & shoot, shoot, slr
All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:42 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.