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Old 15-10-13   #1
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Component Advice for a Gaming Build


I need help in buying/building a new PC. My budget and requirements are as follows:
  • Budget: -N/A Pretty Much Flexible under 60K
  • Existing hardware setup: Dell 23" Ultrasharp, KB+Mouse
  • Components from the existing setup that you intend to keep: Monitor +KB + Mouse
  • Components that you have in mind for your new PC:
    CPU - i5-4570S / i5-4670K / i7-4770 (I will get this from another source, dont include the price in consideration)
    Mobo - Gigabyte GA-B85-D3H (INR 5.2k on FK after offers)
    RAM - 8GB GSkillz (INR 5.2K on FK)
    HDD - 1TB WD Blur (INR 3.5k on FK)
    DVD - Liteon/LG (INR 1k)
    PSU - Seasonic S12-520 (INR 3825 on FK)
    Cabinet - HAF 912 Combat (INR 4250 on FK) or Corsair 200R
    GPU - MSI 760TF OC (INR 18k on FK)
  • Plans to upgrade in the future: Not for the next 3-4 years, want to play all games at high/ultra settings for some time
  • Places from where you will buy components along with your location: Flipkart (there 5% offer along with 15% cashback offer is really tempting, None of the offline shops in Blr seem to be able to match their prices
  • Are you comfortable with buying secondhand components from the Erodov market? : Nope
  • Intended use of the PC [gaming/office use/rendering/HD playback etc] : 99% Gaming
  • Monitor resolution and size: 23" 1080p
  • Will you be overclocking your setup?: Wont OC CPU, Will look at OCing GPU if needed
  • Which OS will you use?: Win 7 Ultimate

Let me know how the component list sounds.
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Old 15-10-13   #2
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by ethanhunt View Post
PSU - Seasonic S12-520 (INR 3825 on FK)
Thats not an Haswell certified PSU...!

Source
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CPU: i7 6700k @ 4.8GHz
Mobo: ASUS MAXIMUS VIII HERO ALPHA RGB
RAM: 4 x 8GB G.SKILL Trident Z 3400MHz CL16
HDD: 2+3TB WD Black SATA3 & 512+256GB Samsung 850 pro
GPU: Gigabyte Xtreme Gaming WATERFORCE GTX 1080 @ 1759MHz (core) 1276MHz (mem) 1898MHz (boost)
PSU: SeaSonic X Series X850 Gold
Case & Cooler: Corsair 760T Black Red & H110i in Push Pull
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Old 15-10-13   #3
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

add a ssd too
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Old 15-10-13   #4
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by hawk View Post
Thats not an Haswell certified PSU...!

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Don't really care about the Haswell compatibility - it's more of a marketing stunt.

SSD will be added later 5-6 month down the line.

Anything else guys ?
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Old 15-10-13   #5
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

for hdd u could go for a 3rd gen Hybrid one, in a review, the boot up time went from around 25 to under 15 by 4th or 5th boot
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Old 15-10-13   #6
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by hawk View Post
Thats not an Haswell certified PSU...!

Source
Bro I am running my i5-4430 with a H87 on a CX430.
Dont worry about psu , just add 1 or 2 case fans and you are good to go.
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Old 16-10-13   #7
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by ethanhunt View Post
Don't really care about the Haswell compatibility - it's more of a marketing stunt.
Originally Posted by Parth SK Tank View Post
Bro I am running my i5-4430 with a H87 on a CX430. Dont worry about psu , just add 1 or 2 case fans and you are good to go.
If you guys don't care much about the life of your components or stability of the system then its up to you .. but don't advertize this.

And its not a marketing stunt! Why would any manufacturer personally advertize abt its product being uncompilable with the new gen of processors?

This is Indian Mentality, when U don't understand something, blame it on Marketing!

Haswell series is a new gen of processors aimed at energy efficiency. These CPUs can enter the sleep state (C7) when power required is as low as 0.05A and the only load (in this C7 state) is on the +12V rail which is not really an issue with most power supplies. The problem arrives when there is still some load on the other rails of the PSU (the +3.3V and +5V). This load can make the 12V rail go bonkers and the PSU protection wont let the PC get out of the sleep state. U'd need to switch off the PSU switch, wait 7 seconds, switch on the PSU switch and only then will the PC restart (with windows error message).

Whats the point of getting an Haswell, if you can't make use off its main feature of the 10% drop in power consumption at sleep (from 6W to about 0.6W)? I ve been using a 4770K@4.3GHz for 4 months now and it does rawk! But adding a non compatible PSU will not just mess up the stability of the system .. it will even reduce the life of your components (HDD, SSD, GPU, mobo, RAM, etc). If you wanna do something, do it right. You can be stingy where it wont hurt the life and stability of the system. But an incompatible PSU would just make you frustrated and mad with your new system.

/my 2 cents

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

In simple terms, how will you measure 0.5ml liquid in a 20ml syringe with a minimum measurement of 1ml? Or how will U be able to count 0.5mm space with a scale with minimum marking of 1mm? All the PSUs are capable of supplying study current at 0.5A (i.e. 6W) .. but Haswell can require current at 0.05A (0.6W) in sleep state which, all are not capable off. The PSU that are capable are Haswell certified.

And Seasonic S12 520W is an awesome PSU, I ve recommended it to somany folks here on E and at other places (check my posts) but, this is 1 place where the PSU can mess up the system. If you still go for it, do disable C7 (sleep state) in BIOS but it can still mess up the stability and life of the system, as the required min power is still 0.6W when this PSU gives the power at min 1W. You ve been warned!
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Old 16-10-13   #8
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by hawk View Post
If you guys don't care much about the life of your components or stability of the system then its up to you .. but don't advertize this.

And its not a marketing stunt! Why would any manufacturer personally advertize abt its product being uncompilable with the new gen of processors?

This is Indian Mentality, when U don't understand something, blame it on Marketing!

Haswell series is a new gen of processors aimed at energy efficiency. These CPUs can enter the sleep state (C7) when power required is as low as 0.05A and the only load (in this C7 state) is on the +12V rail which is not really an issue with most power supplies. The problem arrives when there is still some load on the other rails of the PSU (the +3.3V and +5V). This load can make the 12V rail go bonkers and the PSU protection wont let the PC get out of the sleep state. U'd need to switch off the PSU switch, wait 7 seconds, switch on the PSU switch and only then will the PC restart (with windows error message).

Whats the point of getting an Haswell, if you can't make use off its main feature of the 10% drop in power consumption at sleep (from 6W to about 0.6W)? I ve been using a 4770K@4.3GHz for 4 months now and it does rawk! But adding a non compatible PSU will not just mess up the stability of the system .. it will even reduce the life of your components (HDD, SSD, GPU, mobo, RAM, etc). If you wanna do something, do it right. You can be stingy where it wont hurt the life and stability of the system. But an incompatible PSU would just make you frustrated and mad with your new system.

/my 2 cents

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

In simple terms, how will you measure 0.5ml liquid in a 20ml syringe with a minimum measurement of 1ml? Or how will U be able to count 0.5mm space with a scale with minimum marking of 1mm? All the PSUs are capable of supplying study current at 0.5A (i.e. 6W) .. but Haswell can require current at 0.05A (0.6W) in sleep state which, all are not capable off. The PSU that are capable are Haswell certified.

And Seasonic S12 520W is an awesome PSU, I ve recommended it to somany folks here on E and at other places (check my posts) but, this is 1 place where the PSU can mess up the system. If you still go for it, do disable C7 (sleep state) in BIOS but it can still mess up the stability and life of the system, as the required min power is still 0.6W when this PSU gives the power at min 1W. You ve been warned!
Sorry bro - but you are mixing two things.

1. Yes, one of the main selling points of Haswell is the energy efficiency with the low power state in Sleep mode. And the "non-Haswell" certified PSU's dont support it.

2. As you said, this is easily countered by diasbling the C7 & C6 states in BIOS. Where you are wrong is - Absolutely no way it affects the life, stability & performance of your system! The only thing you lose out is the power bill savings (which will be ultra small anyway). There is no way choosing a non-Haswell PSU will do anything wrong to your system if you disable the C7/C6 state.

And BTW, no manufacturer has said the non-certified PSU's are INCOMPATIBLE with haswell procs - everyone has said you cant use the low power states with them, otherwise they work perfectly. If you have any doubts, go check out Anandtech or even the PSU websites themselves. So please stop scaring people with these tales if they use non compatible PSU's.

PS: If you suggest a PSU as awesome as the Seasonic S12 in the 4-4.5k range which is Haswell compatible, i will choose it in a heartbeat.
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Old 16-10-13   #9
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Originally Posted by ethanhunt View Post
PS: If you suggest a PSU as awesome as the Seasonic S12 in the 4-4.5k range which is Haswell compatible, i will choose it in a heartbeat.
Then get the Antec VP650P V2!

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Old 16-10-13   #10
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by ethanhunt View Post
2. As you said, this is easily countered by diasbling the C7 & C6 states in BIOS. Where you are wrong is - Absolutely no way it affects the life, stability & performance of your system! The only thing you lose out is the power bill savings (which will be ultra small anyway). There is no way choosing a non-Haswell PSU will do anything wrong to your system if you disable the C7/C6 state.
Well, it does. Its still too early to be commonly noticed. Think logically, If the requirement is at 0.05A sleep state and 0.5A at idle, and the PSU is not capable of giving anything below 1.0A, where will the rest of the 0.5A go? Energy can neither be created not destroyed (except by the almighty) .. it can only be transformed from 1 form to the other by us mortals). That 0.5A gets converted to ripples, electrical noise and heat .. which can cause instability and hardware degradations. I know most Indians don't care much abt safety and stuff - the "chalta hai" attitude. But, for me, precaution is v.imp. I love my hardware.

Ofc, S12II 520W is capable of 0.5A (but not all PSUs are) and that "should ve" been fine, as long as sleep state is disabled in BIOS. But Haswell needs 0.05A at the lowest power states and that can occur even at non sleep state .. most power supply companies wont talk publicly on the issue. And as mentioned before, its still too early to be noticed and mentioned, everywhere. But the PSU manufacturers are aware of this and that's the reason they are coming up with PSUs equipped with a DC-to-DC converter which enables the so-called ZERO Load Design. These power supplies will deliver voltages even at 0W load.

Again, my intention here is to inform towards caution - not to "scare". I do test PSU for manufacturers and they trust me to post honest reviews about their PSU. Even Seasonic. Give the CEO of Tirupati Enterprise a call and ask him. I ve discussed Haswell compatibility with seasonic PSUs with for hrs, if not days. And its "Haswell Compatibility" not Haswell certified. Intel is not giving certifications to PSUs. But it does mention those that are compatible and not Search Results

Finally, the OP is asking component advise for a new built. Shouldn't he be advised caution? Isn't there a compatibility issue? Even Seasonic has confirmed this: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide If you are ready to take risks, you are most welcome to. As long as you the pros and cons are mentioned and the others are cautioned.
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Old 16-10-13   #11
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

Originally Posted by hawk View Post
Well, it does. Its still too early to be commonly noticed. Think logically, If the requirement is at 0.05A sleep state and 0.5A at idle, and the PSU is not capable of giving anything below 1.0A, where will the rest of the 0.5A go? Energy can neither be created not destroyed (except by the almighty) .. it can only be transformed from 1 form to the other by us mortals). That 0.5A gets converted to ripples, electrical noise and heat .. which can cause instability and hardware degradations. I know most Indians don't care much abt safety and stuff - the "chalta hai" attitude. But, for me, precaution is v.imp. I love my hardware.
So do I. But you are mistaken again in believing that the sleep state of Haswell can only draw 0.05A. Fact is there are multiple sleep states - by disabling C6 & C7 we are only making sure that the lowest one's are never engaged. Link below for your reference on different sleep states. This means you dont need to worry about the remaining 0.5A turning into heat / noise etc

Everything you need to know about CPU states



Originally Posted by hawk View Post
Ofc, S12II 520W is capable of 0.5A (but not all PSUs are) and that "should ve" been fine, as long as sleep state is disabled in BIOS. But Haswell needs 0.05A at the lowest power states and that can occur even at non sleep state .. most power supply companies wont talk publicly on the issue. And as mentioned before, its still too early to be noticed and mentioned, everywhere. But the PSU manufacturers are aware of this and that's the reason they are coming up with PSUs equipped with a DC-to-DC converter which enables the so-called ZERO Load Design. These power supplies will deliver voltages even at 0W load.
You are wrong again the lowest power state will not reach 0.05A if the sleep modes are disabled. The minimum it will draw is ~23W at idle - the low current draw is only in sleep state. The reason why PSU companies are coming up with newer designs is to make sure the power efficiency touted by Haswell can be achieved.

Originally Posted by hawk View Post
Again, my intention here is to inform towards caution - not to "scare". I do test PSU for manufacturers and they trust me to post honest reviews about their PSU. Even Seasonic. Give the CEO of Tirupati Enterprise a call and ask him. I ve discussed Haswell compatibility with seasonic PSUs with for hrs, if not days. And its "Haswell Compatibility" not Haswell certified. Intel is not giving certifications to PSUs. But it does mention those that are compatible and not Search Results

Finally, the OP is asking component advise for a new built. Shouldn't he be advised caution? Isn't there a compatibility issue? Even Seasonic has confirmed this: Logical Increments - PC Buying Guide If you are ready to take risks, you are most welcome to. As long as you the pros and cons are mentioned and the others are cautioned.
I appreciate your intention, but you do come across as scaring people by mentioning things like "low life of components", "i love my hardware" etc. The only caution you should be giving people is either to disable the c6/c7 states in BIOS or attach a single case fan which will make sure the min load is well above the threshold.

Finally, you can read yourself the advice given by Cooler Master on their own website when Haswell came out - Cooler Master's PSU Haswell Ready
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Old 16-10-13   #12
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Re: Component Advice for a Gaming Build

All that you mentioned were posted when Haswell was coming out or had just came out and what I'm talking about are the recent observations on the behavior of the PSU powering Haswell CPUs. Give it some time, you will see more posts/threads with issues. Infact, there are already a few threads about the issues even with certain PSU compatible with Haswell.

Recently, I read about some PSU manufacturer coming out in the open to mention the issue and how they covered it in their new range of PSU. Will check my history and see if I can find that press release .. google didn't help me find the link. I'll post soon.
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